... Saab. GM truly sucks for that.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news ... 9/1219/1224260978012.html
http://www.irishtimes.com/news ... 9/1219/1224260978012.html
GM now closes...
Hopefully an entrepeneur with better business sense will buy it and be able to make the profit GM never could
#3
- bunder9999
oh well, gm is going down the tubes anyways...
- they didn't sell opel to magna, which leaves opel in limbo.
- the volt will fail horribly because the power supply isn't available.
- they got rid of the good brands (pontiac), and didn't get rid of the shit brands (holden, daewoo), or the redundant brands (vauxhall, buick).
Redundant brand - Vauxhall? You must be joking! It is one of the most important brands in the UK, and now Vauxhall / Opel are making some great cars, like the Zafira, New Astra and Insignia. Yes they are the same as Opel, but the brand of Vauxhall used to be one of the most respected British brands ever.
I think they should axe everything but Chevy and Cadillac. When they become solvent again they could reintroduce Pontiac but they are incapable of success with any other brands. I'm speaking only of the north american market I don't know much about what they do in EU and AUS.
All these failures by GM only make Ford look even better. Ford is really kicking ass and it all started with them refusing government bailouts. I know a lot of people actually were influenced to take a second look and buy a ford just for that reason. Half of the new cars I see on the street are ford fusions or focus and I know from driving a fusion that it is a solid, relevant, fun car that is more than enough competition for Camry and accord. I went to their dealership recently and was impressed with every car in their lineup. The only GM car that means anything is the camaro.
All these failures by GM only make Ford look even better. Ford is really kicking ass and it all started with them refusing government bailouts. I know a lot of people actually were influenced to take a second look and buy a ford just for that reason. Half of the new cars I see on the street are ford fusions or focus and I know from driving a fusion that it is a solid, relevant, fun car that is more than enough competition for Camry and accord. I went to their dealership recently and was impressed with every car in their lineup. The only GM car that means anything is the camaro.
If Vauxhall goes down the pan the UK will be dominated by Ford Focusses.
No matter where you look in this country you'll always see Fords, (its worse round here because this part of the country is Ford territory), its a shame, more variety would be nice.
Saab actually made some pretty good cars, so its a shame, at least the original Saab are still making some pretty good jet fighters.
No matter where you look in this country you'll always see Fords, (its worse round here because this part of the country is Ford territory), its a shame, more variety would be nice.
Saab actually made some pretty good cars, so its a shame, at least the original Saab are still making some pretty good jet fighters.
My dad was a huge Ford fan - as am I - and had LOADS of Fords. Infact, until recently, all his cars were Fords apart from a Mini Mayfair. He even had a Sierra XR4x4, and is looking to get a Ford Cougar ST200 now. At the moment he has a M Reg Vauxhall Astra 1.4 Merit (not as bad as I thought it would be), a P Reg Fiat Punto 1.2S (which is actually Chris758's car and is worse than I first thought) and a N Reg Toyota Granvia (which is fricking amazing.)
#8
- -NightFly-
i have seen a vauxhall only once in my life with my own eye...i don't think they travel too far outside of UK.
FlyMike you are my favourite LFSer!
Yeah but take a look at this
UK is just a small part of the world, which means Vauxhalls are almost invisible/inexistent/unknown. Do you really think someone cares about it?
SIze of a country isn't everything. The UK pretty much owned the world not all that long ago.
Lots of people care about it. Most of them just live in the UK
Haha. Don't be so silly.
Vauxhalls are bloody crap. The Zafira, Astra and Insignias are not great cars. There awful cars. The interiors are cheap and tacky, and they all (Yes all. I have driven all 3 you have mentioned) handle like crap. There no where near there rivals.
Also, i think you mean Mondeo ST200. The Cougar ST200 was never put into production.
I wouldn't say they are crap, the Opel Insignia won car of the year award I don't know if that really means anything, though.
I don't know if that really means anything, though.It may of won an Award. I wasn't aware.
I still thought it was aload of crap to be honest. The VXR seems to be nice, but i haven't driven it.
I still thought it was aload of crap to be honest. The VXR seems to be nice, but i haven't driven it.
A good car for Vauxhall is one that sells, if it doesn't sell it's not a good car. It simple. No profit, no company.
I don't know the sale figures of the Insignia, but it appeared to be a car too late for the market. Budget cars are where's it at, and with all the governmental interference with the market its hard for companies to stay afloat.
I don't know the sale figures of the Insignia, but it appeared to be a car too late for the market. Budget cars are where's it at, and with all the governmental interference with the market its hard for companies to stay afloat.
I would actually love to try out a Vauxhall. But with what bunder says, yeah give GM 10 years and they'll be shutting their doors. Neither Saab or Pontiac actually did fail... the market just did. Like FlyMike said, Ford is really kicking some serious ass! I have actually liked Ford for a long time, and I'm actually impressed at their face lifted Mustang, Fusion, and Edge. I bet Ford will be the last car brand for America in about 15 years, and Ford will still be going strong.
the market doesn't fail lol companies do, markets can't. The can be interfered with of course, but not fail
""i just built a car that can only be driven if u had 8 legs. it didn't sell, the market failed
Ah good point. Saab was a pretty good product though.
I knew this already 2 days ago but stil.
It's sad news Saab was an epic brand it should have being saved
It's sad news Saab was an epic brand it should have being saved
GM likes to please people. Problem is, it's impossible to please everybody with the same car. I guess they could sell all their cars under the same brand, but each of them have become, over the years, viewed as "target buyer specific".
They're trying to change this, but to me, the GM brands go (or went) as follow:
GMC: Trucks
Chevy: General Consumer cars (mostly)
Ponctiac: General Consumer cars (mostly)
Buick: Cars for old people
Oldsmobile (just for the purpose of argument): Cars for old people
Cadillac: Cars for old people that are trying to spend their heritage before it's too late
Saab: Buy European!
Opel: Pontiacs!
Holden: Pontiacs!
Saturn: Cars made out of plastic that would have dominated the market, had they had any other arguments than the plastic body
The way I feel about these is probably not the way everybody feels about them, but I am quite sure that a lot of people associate each brands to the people who buy them, like I do. That's a major problem for GM when they're trying to drastically change the way people feel about their cars. Technically, GM would only need two brands, maybe even one. You could argue that having the trucks and the cars as separated entities is reasonable, but beyond that, it's pretty much useless to divide. You don't need a brand for luxury cars, it's just to fool Cadillac consumers into the false feeling that they're buying something else, better than a Chevy. In most cases, it's just a re-branded car. And it's just not the Americans that do this.
Also consider that the American consumer is very attached to those names. People wouldn't let go off Cadillac easy. A lot of people are already sad to see Pontiac get off the boat.
I think Saab should and could have been saved. To me, Saab cars have always been very good looking, but awful to drive (sloppy) and, mostly because of this, not good value.
They're trying to change this, but to me, the GM brands go (or went) as follow:
GMC: Trucks
Chevy: General Consumer cars (mostly)
Ponctiac: General Consumer cars (mostly)
Buick: Cars for old people
Oldsmobile (just for the purpose of argument): Cars for old people
Cadillac: Cars for old people that are trying to spend their heritage before it's too late
Saab: Buy European!
Opel: Pontiacs!
Holden: Pontiacs!
Saturn: Cars made out of plastic that would have dominated the market, had they had any other arguments than the plastic body
The way I feel about these is probably not the way everybody feels about them, but I am quite sure that a lot of people associate each brands to the people who buy them, like I do. That's a major problem for GM when they're trying to drastically change the way people feel about their cars. Technically, GM would only need two brands, maybe even one. You could argue that having the trucks and the cars as separated entities is reasonable, but beyond that, it's pretty much useless to divide. You don't need a brand for luxury cars, it's just to fool Cadillac consumers into the false feeling that they're buying something else, better than a Chevy. In most cases, it's just a re-branded car. And it's just not the Americans that do this.
Also consider that the American consumer is very attached to those names. People wouldn't let go off Cadillac easy. A lot of people are already sad to see Pontiac get off the boat.
I think Saab should and could have been saved. To me, Saab cars have always been very good looking, but awful to drive (sloppy) and, mostly because of this, not good value.
by whom?
Jesus
GM has actually been pretty successful changing the demographic of Cadillac. I see a lot of youngish successful people driving CTS-V's in my neighborhood. I'm only 18 and would trade my camaro for a CTS-V in a heartbeat
Since it is Americans who would have had to save Saab, and most have no brand loyalty to that company, I think they made the right decision. Then again any downsize for GM is a good decision.
Since it is Americans who would have had to save Saab, and most have no brand loyalty to that company, I think they made the right decision. Then again any downsize for GM is a good decision.
GM now closes...
(75 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG