I've been away from LFS for over a year, I think (?).. I left right around S2 Alpha came out. I thought I'd come back to see what's happening with a game I used to really like.

First impressions after a few days back...
Still ALPHA?!?!??!
RWD cars are much more drivable...
What's up with the prejudice against the GTI/GT? Don't tell the real world that "Road Super" level tires and double adjustable shocks can't be bought for cars with less than 200 horsepower.

I was just starting to play with tuning settings...

Call me a weenie, but I have a soft spot for the GTI/GT. The treatment as "inferior cars" makes me feel a like LFS and I don't have the same understanding of sporting cars.

Well, anyway, since S2 still isn't out, maybe I'll go back into hibernation for another year and see if there's anything worth paying for then. I kinda missed LFS, though.

edit: grammar

hey, we got an f1 car now

FO8 is worth the price of admission alone tho, especially seeing as you've only to buy the s1-s2 upgrade. GTRs are a blast too

Quote :

Call me a weenie, but I have a soft spot for the GTI/GT. The treatment as "inferior cars" makes me feel a like LFS and I don't have the same understanding of sporting cars.

The idea behind it is to let begginers to learn how to setup a car, so giving them less variables to change make their life easier.

Quote from Mogar :

The idea behind it is to let begginers to learn how to setup a car, so giving them less variables to change make their life easier.

I guess I don't really buy that, and here are several reasons why...
How does the prohibition against "Road Super" tires help a beginner set up?
If you want to restrict choices to ease things for beginners, why not put in a "beginner mode" for setup parameters for all cars?
Does someone buying LFS for the F1 car really sit around driving the GTI/GT to get the hang of setting up the suspension?
It seems inconsistent to eliminate double adjustable shocks because it's too complicated for beginners, but leave in options for "Parallel Steer" and asymetric tire pressures... (?)

Judging by comments I had read in the previous RSC forums, and online stretching clear back to the demo days, I find the "prejudice against low horsepower cars" arguement more consistent with the evidence. Perhaps you guys could dispel this for me, though... Does the UF have the option for double adjustable shocks and "Road Super" tires (the normal UF, not the UF GTR)?

By the way, I want to comment that upon re-reading my earlier post, I think I come across as more ... aggressive (?) than I wanted to. Didn't mean to pass judgement on other people's decisions to pay money. Merely meant to comment based on my own needs/criteria.

I checked around the recent threads and couldn't find anything about LFS's development forecast. I know the devs are probably quite gunshy about putting out any sort of dates for people to get excited about, but any hints on whether S2 will go at least Beta before 2007?

Thanks...

edit: clarification/word choice

the thing is we dont have server side settings to limit setup parameters as it is
so for road normals to have any use in the game (except drifting) the tyre choice for these cars has to be limited all the time ... same argument goes for the (on road cars) somewhat more realistic one way dampers

The dampers are still two-way dampers, only the bump setting is forced to half of the rebound setting. Same thing with clutch pack diffs.

Mirther - like Shotglass said, if all cars can use at least Road Supers, why bother putting Road Normals into the game? And the normal tyres still grip a lot anyway. Additionally, the XR GT would be really boring, at least you can just about get the ass out in it still.

bob: people would still choose to use them for variety. in gran turismo 4 you can fit just about any tyre to any car (some can't take dirt / ice tyres, but that's it), and people will still run challenges on n1 (worst tyres in the game) just for the fun of it. they could always be put into a league's rules, or something.

Quote from Mirther :

I know the devs are probably quite gunshy about putting out any sort of dates for people to get excited about, but any hints on whether S2 will go at least Beta before 2007?

The current Alpha is quite stable. Hell, I wish other companies' "final" products would be as stable as LFS (no one say "Microsoft").

It's only called Alpha because it still lacks some planned features. Nobody seems to know (or want to tell) what those features are, but I'd hazard a guess that they are few. The Beta phase should be short, because that's just to iron out the last bugs. (I see no reason to get excited about S2 Final: the exciting stuff has been added in Alpha, and Final is just for finishing touches.)

I wish they would drop the "alpha" tag, for something that doesnt have such a big stigma as alpha does.

The current quality of the sim far outwieghts that of an alpha release, regardless of weather S2 is complete or not.

I personally feel the term alpha is doing the sim a big injustice, and is responsable for many people not giving LFS a chance.

Dan,

First of all, welcome back.

Quote from Mirther :

How does the prohibition against "Road Super" tires help a beginner set up?

Road Normals still do stick. What's your issue with them? You can go and get Keygets' slickmod that will allow you to use Road Super on these cars and you'll find very little difference (you can't use it online on most servers though). In the real world, these cars would benefit a lot more from other things than tyres. Road Normals also add a bit of a challenge in that drivers must adjust between tyre compounds.

The Alpha tag on LFS shows just how dedicated to the game the developers are. If you'd also like to note, LFS S2 became a lot more than it was planned to be. If the devs were still considering S2 as what it would have been before they released the Alpha, we'd be in Final and a few patches in at that. Don't judge it by the Alpha tag and spend some time with it.

Quote from Mirther :

I've been away from LFS for over a year, I think (?).. I left right around S2 Alpha came out. I thought I'd come back to see what's happening with a game I used to really like.

First impressions after a few days back...
Still ALPHA?!?!??!
RWD cars are much more drivable...
What's up with the prejudice against the GTI/GT? Don't tell the real world that "Road Super" level tires and double adjustable shocks can't be bought for cars with less than 200 horsepower.

I was just starting to play with tuning settings...

Call me a weenie, but I have a soft spot for the GTI/GT. The treatment as "inferior cars" makes me feel a like LFS and I don't have the same understanding of sporting cars.

Well, anyway, since S2 still isn't out, maybe I'll go back into hibernation for another year and see if there's anything worth paying for then. I kinda missed LFS, though.

edit: grammar

Me too!!

I stopped for quite a few months but for some reason, I just started to have a look again and now i'm, yet again, hooked

Quote from danowat :

I wish they would drop the "alpha" tag, for something that doesnt have such a big stigma as alpha does.

The current quality of the sim far outwieghts that of an alpha release, regardless of weather S2 is complete or not.

I personally feel the term alpha is doing the sim a big injustice, and is responsable for many people not giving LFS a chance.

Dan,

Although you make a valid point, I tend to side with the devs on this one. As Scawen has explained numerous times, beta implies that all of the features of a product are included and that there's just some bug-hunting to be done. Alpha means that certain features are completely unfinished. Which is exactly the case with LFS (the AI and damage model, for instance).

Alpha doesn't actually need to mean loads of bugs. Just because most games are full of them at the alpha stage (hell, even in the gold versions) doesn't mean LFS has to be .

Edit: Ow and yeah, the GTIs rock.

Quote from bobvanvliet :

Alpha doesn't actually need to mean loads of bugs. Just because most games are full of them at the alpha stage (hell, even in the gold versions) doesn't mean LFS has to be.

As a software developer, I would agree. But publicity-wise, it might be sensible to swap 'alpha' for a more neutral term (e.g. 'increment'). Most people will think that 'alpha' equals 'buggy crap', and that expectation is often confirmed by fact.

- "Hey, I got this great sim, LFS S2 Alpha. Wanna try it?"
- "Alpha?? No, thanks. Gimme a ring when it's finished."

I agree of the alpha thing. When people hear "ALPHA", then usually the first thing they think is: "Hmm, if it is alpha, then i better not try that first, im sure it has lots of bugs and i better wait when new demo comes out".

But i still hope that people who always decide on the name, still try this game and buy license.


ESGT a.ka must4ng

Quote from axus :

Road Normals still do stick. What's your issue with them? You can go and get Keygets' slickmod that will allow you to use Road Super on these cars and you'll find very little difference (you can't use it online on most servers though).

Quote from Bob Smith :

if all cars can use at least Road Supers, why bother putting Road Normals into the game?

Let me get this straight, Normals are hard to tell apart from Supers, and nobody would drive Normals anyway if they had a choice for Supers. Right? So why does the choice exist on the TBO group? Why not just say "Street, Dirt, Hybrid" for all rollcage-less cars? Why emphasize the fact that tires are restricted to (slightly?) inferior choices on certain cars?

Quote from Bob Smith :

The dampers are still two-way dampers, only the bump setting is forced to half of the rebound setting. Same thing with clutch pack diffs.

So why not have a "beginner's setup mode" that allows the beginners to set up all their cars with similar "learning aids"? You're saying that new players _REALLY_ perfect their driving and setup skills on the GTI/GT and don't go straight to the "FO8", especially when people are saying "FO8 is worth the price of admission alone tho(sic)"

Look at it another way-- Say I find a guy who autocrosses his VW hatchback. I tell him about this game, and he checks it out. He goes into the game sees the GTI.. looks similar, specs are in the right ballpark, so he thinks "GREAT! They've got my car!" Then he goes into the setup screen and goes to try to mimic his setup. "Oops.. can't setup the LSD right. Oops can't set up the shocks right! Hmm... pretty limited 'Simulation'! What's this?? --all the high horsepower cars have the ability to tune these things? Well, I guess Mr. Hooty-tooty-high-falooty doesn't want to spend his time looking down his nose at me. I'll go elsewhere. What's that you say? You USED to be able to tune more on the light cars and they TOOK IT OUT? Sheesh.. I know when I'm not wanted."

By the way, Bob, you are talking about Single Adjustable, Double Acting shocks, which are out there. But there are also quite reasonable priced Single Adjustable Single Acting shocks (e.g. Koni Sports adjust rebound only), and of course the still quite easily available Double Adjustable, Double Acting shocks. It's when you start going into the 4-way adjustable shocks that you really start getting into the rarefied air.

Quote from Shotglass :

same argument goes for the (on road cars) somewhat more realistic one way dampers

That arguement would be a lot more persuasive if it made sense or fit with the facts... Or are you not considering the "TBO cars to be road cars? Perhaps you were not aware that the capabilities in question are (still) available on those cars? Have you found a source for a kit to easily adjust "parallel steer" on your car? How about an infinitely variable transmission set?

"Beginner's Setup Mode" being available for all cars provides that lower barrier to entry for new players if the establishment thinks it's needed, but it doesn't alienate enthusiasts who have real-world budgets and real-world competition driving and setup-tuning experiences.

edit: punctuation

Quote from Mirther :

Have you found a source for a kit to easily adjust "parallel steer" on your car? How about an infinitely variable transmission set?

who said the setup restictions where fully implemented at this point ?