I had a few race on the new AS6 layout with BF1 today (F1 ooh!) and noticed this strange thing: In the fast left corner, few corners before the backstraight, the front right suspension arms get damaged by just the cornering forces. This happened many times... After 2 or 3 laps the tire is bent so much that you need to take some corners a lot slower...
I find it very strange that the suspension gets damaged just by driving it...
View a replay of the scene where the suspension gets damaged while driving. View it in force-view (use the "F"-key). When any of the damaged suspension-arms show as red as opposed to orange you need to change the setup, because the suspension reaches it's maximum travel-lenght and gets damaged because of that.
It isn't because suspension is bottoming out, it is like the linkages which are being pulled and bent. Watch the suspension HUD display with F10, when going into a corner you can see the "LWR" part blinking usually, that is typically what causes this, the lower arms are being bent and causing the wheels to goto positive camber.
To be honest, it kind of shows how crazy (maybe too crazy) the BF1 can be entered into a corner without any control loss. Many people are going ALL OUT into a corner and forcing the car without any grip loss whatsoever, this car is godly into corners. Just doesn't seem right, and the suspension being killed/bent from that, kind of explains this a bit.
Yes, it is not the suspension bottoming out. And in that corner the front right tyre gets very big forces affecting to it and as a result the wheel gets bent.
The damage values have probably been set this low to prevent cutting...
After all it's the same effect as you get when you drive the "mecaniked" F08 around the oval with 2000hp+ under the hood The suspension arms just can't take it...
I think too the suspension gets damaged way to fast.
F1 cars simply do not get suspension damage from just driving on track.
Even if you set suspension to max ride height, dampers, springs stiff and wings to zero, i can still damage the suspension at the oval track just by cornering. This is simply complete wrong.
If the ride height of a F1 car is set too low, the suspension will NOT, never ever be damaged. What will happen is that the wooden plank under the F1 car will wear more then 1 millimetre and the driver will be disqualified due to excessive wear of the wooden plank under his car. Also getting damage from cornering at high speed is simply a bug! And a serious one too.
There is only one possibility to damage an F1 car from driving on track, If a F1 car is using a ride height which is much lower then the highest bump on track. That would make the undertray crashing directly into the bump.
At aston national, it is now simply impossible to create a realistic setup that will prevent the suspension being damaged. I' m using already an unrealistic high 7 cm rear and 6.4 cm front!! With rather low wing settings. And still i have to go to great length to avoid the big bumps on track, that's one other problem too, huge bumps have the width of the entire track In the real world thats rarely the case.
I have seen only once that a track had a huge bump over the entire width of the track, that was in the Argentina grand prix a few years ago. On the strait it had a bump of 3 to 4 cm' s high. Strangely, after everybody adjusted his suspension in the practice sessions, nobody ended up with a broken suspension at the end of the race...
I just hope in the next patch, the suspension of the F1 car will be fixed, because i love it to race it at the south city tracks
Surely if you're damaging your suspension, either slow down or change racing lines. At Monaco on the run down to Mirabeau the drivers have to swerve left as you look from the usual trackside camera () to avoid a huge bump that would bottom out the car and cause untold damage.
One day, when the damage of the cars is more advanced, then no, suspension shouldn't be damaged, but as it is it's the only way of penalising you for your mistakes, or over driving.
Plus this has been reduced in the test patches - are you using them?
I can' t understand why a very race incident of a suspension failure on a F1 car proves F1 suspensions are weak. Maybe it would be a better idea to check how often an F1 car had to retire to spontanous suspension failures. I think the rate of suspensions on F1 cars is so low, that the failures are due to mechanics making mistakes, very simple ones like making forgetting to make sure the screws are tight.
Suspensions are made from carbon fiber because its lighter and stronger then steel. Disadvantage of carbon fiber is, its very expensive. Just looking at the diameter will not tell you how strong it is.
" Surely if you're damaging your suspension, either slow down or change racing lines. At Monaco on the run down to Mirabeau the drivers have to swerve left as you look from the usual trackside camera () to avoid a huge bump that would bottom out the car and cause untold damage."
True, but on some tracks in lfs, aston, it is not possible to avoid the bumps because they are just as widt as the track. Also using the most notorious and biggest bump of all F1 one tracks, monaco is not actually an f1 track, is not an good example.
Don' t forget the au rouge chicane in Belgium, in that chicane g-forces go way beyond 3g, The slowest driver will do 260km/h and the better drivers will be at full thottle there with speeds about 290km/h. The cars often bottom-out there a lot. But bend suspensions? no! As long as the suspension get the loads as it was designed for they are strong very very strong. This is true for F1 cars, in fact for nearly any type of car.
I installed all test patches, i did never notice ANY reduction in suspension damage it is just the same as patch S. I think it was intented to put it in a patch but the update got lost somewhere.
Also for a test i used my normal setup with already unrealistic high ride height I set for a test the front and rear to max. Gues what, the car is still getting suspension damage on track. If the bumps are so huge they should be visible!! This test has been done with patch U.
With patch T5 i tested it on the oval with wings set to zero, making it impossible to create to many g' s. But in lfs it is, just turn you wheel a bit extra and the suspension starts to bend.
suspension breakes like that happen all the time.. what are you talking about? watch when they bump each other or an object... they if not break them, they do some good damage to them
Well the first thing to do is work out WHY the suspension is getting damaged. Is is because the vertical load on the undertray is transferred directly to the suspension? Or is it the suspension running out of travel.
Once the bottom of the cars touch the ground does the suspension have any further travel? In LFS we don't set the "ride height", we set the "ride height reduction", but there is no value afaik that shows remaining suspension travel. Perhaps one day we need three suspension variables - ride height (or ride height reduction, but that more confusing; the distance beween the ground and the car body would be best even if camber, tyre pressures at stuff effect it too), suspension travel (from full droop to full bump, either measured at the wheel center or at the spring/shock absorber), and finally bump stop length, so that the bump region of travel can be reduced independantly of droop travel. The last two, suspension travel and bump stop length could probably be combined anyway, as the droop value is usually a fixed thing to do with the suspension geometry.
But before a solution can be found we need to know what scenario leads vertical loads to become excessive.
In the spr. where the suspension damage shows the car pulls over 5 Gs. The vertical force between the tire and road creates the grip, which is lateral force. This lateral force pushes the lower suspensionarm(s)(LWR in F10 menu). These arms have to take the lateral forces "created" during the cornering. Of course all the forces affecting to the tire are linked.
I still say that it is because of the lateral forces: the suspension arm gets damaged with too little force (but I just tested it on the oval and couldn't create any suspension damage, so at least it is at least somewhat fixed)
In the attachment I have drawn a simple picture of forces that are acting to the tire from the ground and from the suspension.
If it was damage to the suspension/dampers, then it would be because the vertical forces being too great. But it is suspension arm damage. You can calculate how much force the lower susp. arm has to cope with when the car pulls 5 Gs, the body has a mass around 500kg, of which 200kg affects that front tire (assumption) and the vertical force in that tyre (T1 in the attachment) is around 2600N (a rough estimate based on speed and setup aero data).
In real life this kind of suspension failures occur only when there is manufacturing errors on the part. Kimi's suspension damage has nothing to do with this matter. And in real life the drivers are not worried if they break their suspension while cornering (lol). They fear that they go over a curb too aggressively and break it there.
I've seen some slight suspension bending still Scawen. And for some people, their cas has had some really incredible bending. Something depending on the setup and how you drive the car.
I don't have a replay or anything, but I know you'd want to see one. Bluebird, if you have a replay, post it, it would help.
Well, don't setup the car like that, and don't drive like that. You can't drive unrealistically (hitting kerbs, running really low ride heights and really stiff suspensions etc), see damage and just ask for it to be stronger. Maybe the suspension is correct and the driving is wrong. Maybe in real life they COULD break their suspension just by driving, who knows.
Tristan, have you ever seen a bent carbon fiber control arm? If you damage CF, it snaps, and since this does not happen in F1 races, the only conclusion can be that cornering does not damage the suspension.
Fatigue (flatspotted tires), loading in the wrong direction (collisions) and improper manufacturing causes suspension failures, but not cornering.
suspension failure is actually quite common in F1, the most notable example should be ruben's ferrari breaking a suspension arm in hungary and the explanation was "he hitted a curb at an awkward angle."
I believe Kimi had one or two suspension failure in past seasons as well.
In the real world thats rarely the case.
) to avoid a huge bump that would bottom out the car and cause untold damage.
