Still audio feedback is some of the most beneficial feedback you can have in a simulated racing game. They already have FF tiggered over the rumble sticks, I don't see why added volume at the same time would be overly difficult and time consuming.
The answer as to why it would be harder than it seems to add a sound effect is that, as far as I know, the rumble through the FF is because the actual forces are transmitted from the wheels. So as the wheel bounces over the ripple strips, it actualy translates directly into wheel movement through the suspension/steering system of the vehicle.
There are no zones on the actual track, so its not like they could just say "ok, a tyre is here so it makes this noise, and triggers this FF effect" which is how most racing games actualy do it.
They would have to make it so that every bump and every suspension movement could potentialy make a noise. That would have to be based on forces and if the wheel actualy left the ground or not.
When it gets added, I would hope that it is done exactly like that, as it would be the most realistic way instead of just botching it and adding effects.
I hear where your coming from. I was playing a bit ago and noticed how the tire sequel was perfectly on from each bump on rumble strip.
Also only.one.RydeR's point seemed valid that's why I didn't think it would be that difficult of an edition. I'm sure the ruble strips are put in as it's own thing such as grass, gravel, sand, ect.
Which also made me think.. With "sport" tires we would have a bit more road noise as well on the cement.
I would think it would be the same as the motor sounds. I mean all we need is a speed sensitive noise judging by the percent of each tire on it gong at w/e rate of speed.
Just how great the tire modeling and physics are in this game. I would think it's that small details it's missing (tire road noise).
But surely, they could just do it the same way as if it is done on the tarmac. As you know, the noise differs on tarmac, due to factors like tyre pressure, tyre angle and camber, speed rotation etc, its not all one noise, so i cant see it being very hard just to do the same for the strips, expect making a different noise for it.
Yes, they do. Its just the noise's we are missing now.
Suspension noise would be a little pointless imo. The tracks are alot smoother than RBR (obviously). Im not saying the suspension does'nt move, but i just dont think that in a race enviroment, your gonna hear the suspension, especially when doing over 100mph in most cars compared to RBR.
Of course the sounds from suspension would be too faint to hear while driving, except when on curbs (suspension components thumping at tens or hundreds of times per second), and also on bigger hills and bumps.
Or is it the rubber in the wheels that is responsible for the "BBBRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPPP" -sound?
Thats my point. When racing, you wont hear it. Imo, the "brrrp" is the tyres, suspension and the body of the car. My guess is that the shocks would travel through the tyre, wheel and suspension and then onto the strut mounts (or where ever the suspension is bolted on said car), then onto the strut tops, then radiating over the car's body.
The sound made by rumble strips is "the whole car". I mean when you drive over the curbs they shake the tire violently and it transfers to the whole car. The body and even the interior parts and basically everything on the car is adding it's own "sound effect" because of the big amount of shaking. It echos thru the whole car.
Generally we could have a one nice sound sample for it and it could be fairly realistic.
Tho I'm not really sure if I would want it. In many games it sometimes annoys me how unrealistically the rumbling sounds work in them.
They usually just shout me something like "hear how artificially this sound is produced".
I dunno how LFS models these things, but the rumble strips could be their own material like road, grass and gravel are and they all have their own sound samples and different "rules" in what situation they are initiated.
And BTW racing cars can produce some quite loud, so called suspension and chassis sounds too, even without any really big bumps on the road.
The "BRRRRR" is mainly the hard pressurized compound rubber of the tires. Also some of the "RRRRRR" would be vibration threw the suspension components.
I can see the GTR series cars making more noise threw the suspension. Mainly because they have stiffer bushings stiffer suspension and also other non OEM stuff added to correct the suspension geometry (if it's all using the same chassis setup).
Also they would have no sound dapening stuff, so you would actually hear more random debris being knocked up to the chassis of the vheicle. Although I think more road (tire) noise would drown this out, and once your going slower you would hear it less.. I was never of a big fan of that noise in GTR series games.
In just about every GTR car video I have watched you hear the suspension bang, scrape, or otherwhise make an interesting noise.
I always thaught it would be cool if you could hear the car moving around you, in a race car you can hear just about everything. From the tyres on the road to the whine of the transmission and differential, suspension movement and brake squeal. Even the engine makes alot of different noises that people don't normaly hear in a road car.
Most people don't listen for these sounds, but will notice when they are missing. That is why LFS's sound engine doesn't sound right, because it is missing alot of these other sounds.
My old bike makes 5 destinct and seperate sounds just at idle. I can hear the timing chain, tappets, cam, exhaust and intake. all of them make a destinct sound I can hear. When one is off I can tell just by the sound. When I accelerate I can hear the exhaust and intake notes change but I can also hear the other sounds change accordingly. This is on a bike designed for racing so I would imagine it would be somewhat similar on a race car.
the closest thing to rumble strip sounds on lfs is when you lock up or skid on the rumble strips. even then its just the skidding sound. they should just put it into the new patch with the new tyre physics and the scirocco.
Well, since this thread is still being bumped i'll throw my two cents in..
I think majority of the sounds mentioned above could be simulated in a fairly simple yet accurate way (bear with me, I'm not an expert :shrug ;
sounds could be simulated by placing acceleration data on a waveform graph, which (I think) can be converted to sound - especially if it's possible to find vibration amplitude (disp, vel, acc) using acceleration/time.
for example: gently bumping the car into an object or a wall would cause a
spike in the car's acceleration, which would result in a thump sound.
like this
Maybe it's more simple then I'm picturing it to be..
if you can convert [acc/time] to [sound pressure(db)/time] I think it could work.
Trouble with reproducing sound like that is that the sample rate is limited to the rate the physics engine runs at (100Hz IIRC) so the highest pitch sound it could pick up would be 100Hz, and any sound between that and about 30Hz wouldn't be picked up properly, even if you use spline interpolation on the samples.
If the car is travelling at 80mph (about 35 metres per second) you'll travel around 35cm in every tick of the physics engine, so any bumps shorter than about 1m apart won't be picked up properly.
nice explanation
definitely answered all the questions that I couldn't ask, all for my lack of knowledge on the subject.
I apologize for being too persistent and possibly beating a dead horse.. but
I still wonder if such a sound engine even with a low pass filter @ 50-60Hz (which sounds like an acceptable range to me, IMO the only missing sounds are the deep thundering bass and rumbling)
Correct me if I'm wrong, since this is mostly based off of what I read on the page above - according to the 'Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem' (found here), with a sampling rate of 100Hz, sounds from 50Hz and below will "allow theoretically perfect reconstruction" ?
I don't have any doubt that you know exactly what you're talking about, so maybe the source of my misunderstanding is not knowing what interpolation is.
But according to the theorem I read about sampling rate- for a car traveling at 35 meters per second, the shortest distance between bumps is 70cm to hear vibrations at 50Hz.
I can't seem to find any dimensions for the 'rumble strips' in LFS, but if each colored strip is 1 meter in length and every strip is a bump then 50Hz would be at 50 meters/second or ~ 112 MPH .. right?
If the red strips are bumps and each white strip is a dip, then a frequency of about 50Hz would occur at 100 meters/s or ~224mph.
Perhaps I'll see if i can pick up on programming and have a go at making a standalone app for outgauge. The sound doesn't even have to be very accurate. This concept is only practical if it isn't about generating sounds based on the acceleration, rather triggering the sound of vibrations and impacts based on the acceleration changes.
whew I feel like i just wrote an essay - sorry for the long post
I've had a bit of a think about it, and you could actually get round the limited sample size problem (although it would need to be in the game code, I don't think you'd have detailed enough access to the track surface to do it with outgauge). I
Instead of purely considering the spot immediately under the wheel, you could look ahead of the wheel and predict (to a good enough extent I think, given that although you don't know if the driver will change direction, the extent of the direction change in a short distance of a metre or so is limited) whether the wheel is likely to encounter any bumps. Using that information and the speed of the car, you would be able to create a waveform to generate the appropriate sound.
;
- sorry for the long post