Source is a post from here: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79146

Quote :

MSA National Court: 31 January 2006

Having listened to evidence at its hearing on Tuesday 31 January, the Motor Sports Association`s National Court has taken the following action:

The Court has suspended the competition licence of Junior Rotax kart racing driver Adam Christodoulou until September 2006. This means Adam Christodoulou will not be permitted to compete in the UK or overseas during this period.

However, the Court has decided not to take any action against three other drivers: Lewis Reeves, Jack Harvey and Jordan Chamberlain.

Separately, the Court has ordered Adam Christodoulou`s father, Peter Christodoulou, to pay £13,000 in costs.

The above decisions were taken on the third and final day of a hearing that opened in December 2005.

In December, the court found that the four drivers named had competed in a meeting at Rowrah on 5 June 2005 using illegally-modified engines. These had been modified by Peter Christodoulou whose actions resulted in a fine of £30,000. The latest order to pay £13,000 in costs is in addition to this fine.

At Tuesday`s hearing, the Court did not accept Adam Christodoulou`s claim that he did not know that his engine at Rowrah had been illegally modified.

However, the Court did accept that the three other drivers – Lewis Reeves, Jack Harvey and Jordan Chamberlain – did not know that the engines they were using were illegal. In effect, said the Court, these drivers had "been fooled."

Previously, the Court had heard unchallenged evidence from Michael Garton, one of the MSA`s most experienced technical commissioners, who said the modifications made to the engines by Mr Christodoulou had been "very deliberate, very sophisticated and very expensive."

Mr Garton also said that this was "the most serious case of cheating" he had ever witnessed during his many years of investigating ineligibility in karting.

In a statement, the Court said: "We accept that Adam (Christodoulou) has considerable ability and we do not wish to prevent him from participating in the sport for more than one season. We also accept that this matter has been hanging over his head for a considerable amount of time, not due wholly to his own fault. We are accordingly suspending his licence until 30 September 2006; and we make an order pursuant to rule 161 of the FIA rules to give that suspension international application."

The Court also heard that the four drivers, since the meeting at Rowrah, had been "victimised" by a number of clubs.

In its statement, the Court added: "We have been made aware of the fact that some clubs have already taken matters into their own hands so as, in effect, to mete out what might be regarded as kangaroo justice. We wholly understand why people feel very strongly about this kind of cheating. Indeed, we agree with them.

"We, however, have heard and tested the actual evidence to the best of our abilities and it is we who have the job of deciding where the truth lies. We have done so and we very much hope that our decision and rulings draw a firm line under this matter. We would be very concerned indeed if further reports of any kind of kangaroo justice were to come to our attention again."


after describing this as the very worst cheating ever delt with in karting that say thay dont want to ban him for more than 1 season !!!!!!!!!!

what masage does this give tho others in our sport or even others outwith our sport.

I also reconise that the court has found the other 3 drivers NOT GUILTY and can only hope that they will now put this matter behind them and be alowed to continue to race unhindered.

Quote from tristancliffe :

What race series did YOU race in, Alan?

Actually, pretty please, with sugar on top, answer us this question Alan. Please, do not avoid this.
Oh and name some facts, series, your full name, so we can check sh1t out. And your racing number. And weight. Hand reach, legs lenght.


On a side note, Anthony Davidson was crap in F1, iirc. So if he indeed is/was top goKarter, doesent this make them all crap? Only using your logic, if that's even possible, bcz honestly i think i would need to smoke a lot more of chiba to get down on that lvl, <73 imo.

Actually Ant was pretty good in F1 considering the machinery available to him. When he was third driver for Honda (when third drivers actually drove at the race meetings) he was usually sensationally quick. The man has talent, but sadly isn't given the opportunity to show it in F1.

I stand corrected.

Still i would want to know the karting info Alan please.

5Haz was using a specific experience to express an opinion. Without letting people know what that experience was his opinion was massively generalist.

Saying "I think karters are egotistical little brats from my own racing experience" doesn't mean much if you don't say what series or karters you raced.

None of my opinions on this specific subject have been based on my own racing experience. Nothing of what I've said on this topic refer to my experience anyway. Why would I divulge this information? What would the debate gain from this information other than you lot knowing I spent a few years racing guys like Lewis Hamilton at Kimbolton/Shenington etc... in Cadets!? It doesn't really clarify anything does it?

Quote from Intrepid :

5Haz was using a specific experience to express an opinion. Without letting people know what that experience was his opinion was massively generalist.

Saying "I think karters are egotistical little brats from my own racing experience" doesn't mean much if you don't say what series or karters you raced.

None of my opinions on this specific subject have been based on my own racing experience. Nothing of what I've said on this topic refer to my experience anyway. Why would I divulge this information? What would the debate gain from this information other than you lot knowing I spent a few years racing guys like Lewis Hamilton at Kimbolton/Shenington etc... in Cadets!? It doesn't really clarify anything does it?

Answer the question, sometimes I get a slight suspicion that you're one of those internet bullshitters. I can prove myself, but you seem pretty unwilling to do the same.

And yeah, I do think the majority of kartors are egotistical brats, I drew that conclusion from my experience of racing, and you.

Quote from Intrepid :

None of my opinions on this specific subject have been based on my own racing experience. Nothing of what I've said on this topic refer to my experience anyway. Why would I divulge this information?

You're challenging people who express a contrary opinion to provide information on their experience. Why shouldn't you do the same?

Example:

Quote from Intrepid :

5haz you never answered my question. What car series did you race, and what notable karters did you race against that helped build your opinion of karting?

Why do you never answer this very simple question.

5haz was making a specific accusation against karters without providing any evidence to back it up. It's perfectly normal to ask for clarification. Then he did, and we could continue the debate.

Please find where I make a specific accusation against a certain group of people that relates to my own racing experience without providing any evidence.

Come on mr Intrepid, we'd like to know.

So rather than trying to further the understand of the debate through clarifications, and evidence you guys want to know about my personal credentials in the racing department (which is pretty uninteresting anyway) which adds nothing to this topic/debate.

My suspicions have come true. This whole thing is clearly a personal vendetta against me, without any interest in the subject matter in hand. Interesting.

Quote from Intrepid :

My suspicions have come true. This whole thing is clearly a personal vendetta against me, without any interest in the subject matter in hand. Interesting.

Did I cry that it was all a personal vendetta when you asked the same question to me?

Don't you think its a bit hypocritical to ask such a question and then take offense when someone asks you the same?

Stop trying to get out of it.

Pretty uninteresting? But haven't you been invloved in organising stuff at your local track and have talked with F1 drivers, and were out in Las Vegas recently along with the likes of Herr Schumacher, sounds pretty interesting to me.

Unless, of course, its all lies, now that would be a shame.

Woo, internet drama.






Seriously, Intrepid ("Alan"), not talking here is just going to come off badly.

It's a very simple question Alan - what do you race?

Telling us WILL contribute to the topic as we might sit up and take note when you tell us how successful you were at the different levels of karting.

But if you're to embarrassed or ashamed...

Sometimes I partially agree with some of Alan's points on karting, but his overall position as a karting extremist (and I don't meen "extreme karting", although that is quite possibly one of the indoor karting centres he may or may not have once raced at) makes it impossible for me to align myself fully to his views, and if anything, I must distance myself from them making it impossible for me to support what little sense he ever comes out with.

I'm not very experienced in car or formula racing, but i'm bloody fast in a kart. In karts i've beaten some F1 names, this has already been discussed to death here already so lets not do it again, but I mention it for a little moral story as there's something Martin Brundle said on his ITV commentary last season which is utterly true which I think needs a voice here.

Once upon a time I used to thrash the current world champion, Jenson Button. When he entered F1 I had a very strong opinion of him as not being worthy of an F1 drive, an opinion which was reinforced by his sustained mediocrity over the years.

However he managed to survive in F1 for a long time, and as Martin Brundle said this year, "Just because you beat him all those years ago doesnt meen that he didnt get better and you didnt". After watching Jenson toward the end of this season I agree with Martin, Jenson was mightly impressive at the end of this season just gone. He has improved.

The moral of the story is quite obvious in this case, but i'll spell it out: A drivers skill at motor racing is not static.

In point of fact, I think i've improved since those days too, which leads me to the conclusion that half this forum would have beaten Jenson back in the day. I don't know what he did to reach F1 and I suspect black magic was involved, but he is now fast enough to deserve it.

This is very rellevent to the arguments that Alan raises, in this constant challenge of "oh you raced a guy from karting"... Skill changes, and karting is something we do at the BEGINNING of our racing career.

It's only washed out has beens like me and Alan who get stuck in karts.