Quote from JeffR :

Last I read it was about 850hp, but this may change from season to season, as it's mostly about much boost is allowed (via the spec waste gate which also controls the push to pass). Rpms are limited by spec to 8500rpm. I think Honda also makes engines for Champ cars.

Nope, 750HP and they are Cosworth engines. Honda supplies IRL which is a completely different league. The different nose cones went away with the open wheel split, unless IRL still uses them. I don't watch IRL much because it is boring and they only do about 2 road courses a year, the rest is ovals.

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/Tech/ChampCar_Specs.asp

I dont mind a champ car, or any other type of car. Bring on the trucks if you like, THAT would be intersting.(trucks not pickups)

I think a lot of oval racers feel cheated by the kyoto ring, its just a high speed test track.
Which attracts the speed nuts and newbies like moths to a flame.

It also gives ovals a bad name, anyone who drives it thinks oval racers cant drive and that ovals are easy.
it was a very bad choice for lfs first oval, I think it should be removed untill a better one can be designed.

good areo-physics are vital for super speedways, air and track temp will also drasticly alter the handling of your car.
Untill these are in and done well in lfs the only ovals it should have are the very flat and low speed ones.

thats why i still suggest bristol for a type of oval.. one that you actually have to brake on

Oh... just think of the carnage!

Quote from Hallen :

Quote :

champ cars ... 850hp ... Cosworth ... Honda

Nope, 750HP and they are Cosworth engines.

Honda did make engines for the former CART series but defected to the IRL series after the split.

Wiki link below.

Regarding the power there are still references to 850hp. There's a reference to making about the same power as 2006 F1's at 750hp, but I think the intent was same power to weight ratio, 750hp @ 1300lbs, versus 850hp at 1500+lbs. Later in this same link you see a reference to 850hp.

I've seen other references to Champ cars (beside the wiki one) that also mention 850hp. Maybe this is the power with push to pass enabled.

The 1990's were the speed days of CART, engines approaching 1000hp, and top speeds near 265mph on high speed ovals (257mph during a race as previously posted).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champ_Car

I have an old video, where you can see the different front and rear wings used. Right after you see several cars take off out of the pits during a race, the view shows the smaller front and rear wings used on high speed ovals.

cart.wmv

When I started this topic I didn't think it would cause this much debate. What I really would like to see would be a nice meaty Le Mans type prototype like the Audi,that'd be good.

I'd rather have the Zytek or the Pescarolo-Courage, but yes, I want an LMP car

i think a le mans prototype clone should have a priority right now

Quote from Hankstar :

I like chocolate ice cream with nuts. Vanilla is shallow. Tasty, I'll admit, but shallow. Having to eat the chocolate around the nuts (or crunch straight through them at an appropriate time) requires more strategy than just slurping straight through the vanilla.

Being in the industry I know more about how to eat ice cream than you, unless you are a confectioner or dairy farmer.

Guys guys guys, this is nothing at all to do with whether the cars bring anything unique to the game.

The fact is that the American entertainment market is huge and if a few setup options and two new car shapes is what pulls the punters in, then so be it .

At least i'll be able to stay up late at night and understand what everyone is saying, no offense to the many Germans in LFS - but i'd rather race with a hillbilly who ... when he slags me off ... says so in a language I understand ...!

Not a big fan of oval racing, myself, but that doesn't mean that others can't and shouldn't be able to enjoy it.

When Champ Car was Cart ( prior to the IRL split ) it WAS kind of cool that they'd race 16-18 races, some on road courses, some on street courses, a couple on super speedways, and a couple on mile long flat ovals. It was fun to watch, and it was fun as a video game ( Papyrus Cart Racing).

Also, for an 'Oval', the Indianapolis track is a bit different, with the 2 turns broken up with a short straight approach. It was always kind of fun to play in traffic. Kyoto is more like the old Michigan Track.

Anyway, if people wanna play / watch oval racing, that's their choice.

I do agree with other comments that a Champ car would only be very similar to the other open-wheelers, other than it's exterior rendering.

If LFS was to expand it's oval racing and / or incorporate something 'american', it might be interesting to include sprint cars, which run on dirt.
It would combine what a lot of people are fond of - light weight/high speed cars, ovals, drifting, dirt .

Just a thought, not a campaign.

LFS needs slower and heavier cars. Enough chase for high speed. A racing truck, something for rally-raid, Fiat Abarth would be nice too. And a wld with several rally specials.

Please forgive me if I'm digging back up a really old thread, but I stumbled upon this thread since it was titled Champ Car, which I had just finished watching the San Jose Grand Prix, and have just learned that Champ Car had spawned from the CART series from the olden days. (This is my first post on the LFS forums btw.)

I'd just like to respond to the whole "oval racing is shallow" argument. I'll respect the opinions of those that think this, but I'd like to give my opinion from another die-hard NASCAR fan as to why oval racing is so exciting. The NASCAR series tends to emphasize that its different from other racing in that the drivers don't race against the track or race against other cars, they race against other drivers. With an equal playing field, you're pitting driver vs. driver. But just watching a race, take for example Daytona. Superspeedway, lots of room to maneuver, not much turning. But, if you ever watch a start to this race, you'll notice the entire field racing 3-wide for several laps. How'd you like to be caught up in traffic at 190 mph like that? Sometimes, you can't even make a move till traffic frees up several laps later, you just have to hold the damn thing together until you can make any sort of move. That's where the strategy comes in. Which line is going to move faster? Sure, the inside, you'd think, but if the outside has a longer freight train, you'd bet the drafting and bumpdrafting is going to shoot you up through the field which would make this line much faster. I'd liken NASCAR to "baseball at 200mph." Well, you may think baseball is boring, then, probably you'll think NASCAR is boring too. But I just love the fact that those races are so long so that someone who's 2 laps down over halfway past the race can STILL come back and win it.

Now, with Live for Speed, I'm starting to explore other forms of racing, and Champ Car seems to be the series I'll probably start paying attention to next. Just thought I'd throw out my two cents as to why people think NASCAR is not shallow.

Either way, racing's racing. Have fun and strive to be number one.

"Oval racing is shallow".

What an ignorant statement.

In ovals there's more than one "best" line, unlike the "follow the leader" circuit layouts. So there's more than one 'optimal' line, according to the situation. Hardly shallow. Being good at oval requires a very different mindset than racing a normal circuit. And of course, there's the different types of ovals: Heavy banking, light banking, no banking at all (Milwaukee's mile oval has ZERO banking, you need downforce there), number of turns, length... and of course, the close racing is unmatched. But nevermind, it's shallow.

*sigh*

I wouldn't have a ChampCar on LFS though. I'd rather add a different type of car, there's 2 high powered single seaters already. Another single seater on that category wouldn't be too different to what's on tap already.

Since Champ cars are detuned CART cars, I think the F1 cars are good enough. The old CART cars were about the same as F1 cars, a bit heavier, but had 900 to 1000hp, except they ran smaller nose cones and wings for the high speed ovals, giving them incredible speeds, like 265mph at the ends of the straight at California speedway during qualification, and Paul Tracy recorded a trap speed of 257mph during a race at the Michigan 500.

The Champ car season is almost all road and street courses now. Just two mid sized ovals, eliminating the need for the smaller nose cones and wings, power is down to 775hp, with about 1 minute of 850hp with the push to pass feature. Indy Racing League is almost all ovals, but a lot slower than the old CART cars. IRL is starting to run some road courses now.

While not a big fan of the current oval, I'd love to see a track like this http://www.seekonkspeedway.com/info.php in lfs. While I wouldn't mind a Nascar'ish car to go with it, I'd even be happy running the current cars on a nice short high-banked oval.

Thanks for that CART vid, Jeff. :up:

Interesting that with all the bashing of ovals and NASCAR that we now have two F1 drivers heading to NASCAR. I can't wait until NASCAR holds an event over across the pond.

Also, I'd give anything to have the talent and opportunity to race in NASCAR, though I'm not a NASCAR fan and prefer road racing. Racing is racing. NASCAR simply has its own set of challenges and nuances.

Bullrings are the best! I definitely would not mind either. Third mile tracks are awesome.

Yes, it is rather interesting that 2 F1 drivers are moving to NASCAR. A few weeks ago, it was rumored that Danica Patrick was also taking interest, but ultimately, she's not moving so long as she has unfinished business in IndyCar to handle.

Also keep in mind that Tony Stewart, last year's Cup champion also ran IndyCar, not to mention other series. He can pretty much drive anything, yet he's still sticking with NASCAR.

It's not "that" uncommon to hear open wheel racers coming to NASCAR, but in this case, this is an international situation. Lots of NASCAR fans are kind of questioning this move (yes, the redneck fanbase I suppose) but I for one am all for it, and it seems NASCAR is for it too. Not to mention, Toyota will be entering Nextel Cup next year as well. It's an exciting time for stock car racing. (Either that, or I've been reading a LOT of news on it) =)

This has also been the 2nd or 3rd year that NASCAR has held one of its season races in Mexico City (Busch, not Nextel Cup). I believe they (used to) run an exhibition race in Japan as well, though I could be mistaken.

Quote from afterlife2k :

Also keep in mind that Tony Stewart, last year's Cup champion also ran IndyCar, not to mention other series. He can pretty much drive anything, yet he's still sticking with NASCAR.

Don't foget that Jeff Gordon jumped into JPM's F1 car a few years ago for some test laps and promptly ran only a few seconds off the pace of the race held at Indy.

You can't compare F1 to NASCAR or IRL. It's too different, So you can't say which is best, which is worse. Oval racing has as much advantages strategie, and thrill as any other racing, it's just another type.

And who is the second F1 driver moving to NASCAR apart from Montoya?

Quote from Knight_Atack :

You can't compare F1 to NASCAR or IRL. It's too different, So you can't say which is best, which is worse. Oval racing has as much advantages strategie, and thrill as any other racing, it's just another type.

And who is the second F1 driver moving to NASCAR apart from Montoya?

I say it will be the son of that unbeatable S.O.B on your avatar.

Quote from MadMac :

While not a big fan of the current oval, I'd love to see a track like this http://www.seekonkspeedway.com/info.php in lfs. While I wouldn't mind a Nascar'ish car to go with it, I'd even be happy running the current cars on a nice short high-banked oval.

Or Bristol!

Last Weekend ChampCar announced the new chassis they'll use from next year onwards, I would love to see that car in LFS:
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=10649

The big plus this car has on the current F1 is no traction control, the push to pass (which would be great for league races, and maybe pickup races as well if you control it correctly) and the aero - it's been designed to give a minimum of disruptive air behind the car, so close racing will be better possible.

ChampCar runs only 1 oval this year (Milwaukee, 1 mile, drivers have to use their brakes there) and very probably none next year.

Quote from Krutch :

and very probably none next year.

Thats the way I'd like to see it. I don't find champ cars on ovals entertaining in the least. (not bashing oval racing, I'm just saying I don't find Champ cars in particular to be entertaining on ovals) I shudder to think of gIRL and Champ Car merging though, which is a possibility for 08.