which is more realistic?

Thanks, I'll try both.

Also, is it me or is the wheek really heavy to steer when using driver-default FF settings and driving the GTRs/BF1? Or is this just how it realistically is.

Thanks, I just saw the config thread too

I have centering ON but at 0%. I think it makes a little difference in the feeling and I prefer it this way.

What's the reasoning for having it on and at 0%?

Well simon, it makes the steering wheel perform like the real thing.

For example, if you had it unchecked, your wheel would be loose all the time, and you wouldn't have any resistance from the steering wheel if you slid or anything. It would just be loose and you wouldn't feel the car's steering tension come into play.

Because, if you try and do a test with the wheel, always do a 360 in your car and let go of the wheel. Just like a car's wheel would really act, it would spin freely and try to countersteer on its own. When you have the option unchecked, it would not do this, and it can result in some unpredictable driving. If you have it checked, but at 0%, it is the most realistic, creating the right amount of looseness and self-countersteering. And if you wanted to tighten up the strength, you just increase the Force Feedback in the game or in the controller's properties. If you increased the centering strength to some percentage (say 50%) for example, the steering would just want to stay centered and not spin freely for the best control.

It is a very important setting if you want to be in full control of the car, and feel more of the car when in a slide or whatnot

Quote from Tweaker :

.. if you had it unchecked, your wheel would be loose all the time, and you wouldn't have any resistance from the steering wheel if you slid or anything. It would just be loose and you wouldn't feel the car's steering tension come into play.

Because, if you try and do a test with the wheel, always do a 360 in your car and let go of the wheel. Just like a car's wheel would really act, it would spin freely and try to countersteer on its own. When you have the option unchecked, it would not do this

That can't be right, centering spring has no relation to current forces, my centering spring setting is unchecked at 0% and my wheel turns (by itself) as it turns on screen, as it should, from the current forces.

Edit: difference with centering on/checked at 0%: none.

I think you read my post wrong, or I typed it wrong

In summary:

---Centering Spring checked @ 50% (or any other percent except 0%), the wheel will want to center with its own force (has no relation to the car wanting to center or steer itself)

---Centering Spring unchecked will result in the wheel just being loose and it will have no connection with the car's counter-steering forces at all. It will just feel like a 1/2 FF wheel, you will only get vibrations.

***Centering Spring checked @ 0% will have the most realistic feel. You will not have any centering forces on the wheel itself, but you will have centering forces from the car and when it has the tendancy to try and counter-steer itself.

This is at least what I feel, and hundreds of other people. Drifters especially want to use this setting, as it gives them the proper control for the steering.

Having it unchecked just turns all tension off for me.

I'm getting full force feedback, steering tension, self counter-steering etc. with centering unchecked, absolutely nothing changes with centering checked.

Wingman 4.60.349, DFP rev.B

Seeing that this thread is for DFP, it could be different results with me and you. I have Red MOMO and newest drivers.

Either way, the checked @ 0% option is the same for anyone I imagine.

im almost 100% sure that there is no difference between unchecked and checked at 0% on a dfp ... neither with the way the wheel countersteerd nor with its looseness or anything

maybe theres that slight difference matrixi feels but it could be all in his mind ... hell it was all in my mind when i first drove with the spring unchecked and blamed the spins on it

I'm sure there was a bit difference in the feeling of the wheel. After I get a new DFP from Logitech (if that ever happens) I'll try it again in on/off.

About countersteering tho, DFP does countersteer automatically (tho very slowly) with or without centering force on at 0%.

Quote from Matrixi :

About countersteering tho, DFP does countersteer automatically (tho very slowly) with or without centering force on at 0%.

way too slow actually ... does anybody know if thats the dfp or something in the ff code of lfs causing this ?

It's just the weak electric motor in it I guess. The G25 marketing dude said that the G25 turns a lot faster than DFP, so we have hope in that wheel.

Also when you countersteer with DFP really fast the electric motor starts generating electricity and that will resist alot causing the wheel to turn slower.

Quote from Matrixi :

Also when you countersteer with DFP really fast the electric motor starts generating electricity and that will resist alot causing the wheel to turn slower.

sure but if you just fed enough power through it in the first place it would either turn fast enough by itself or not brake as much
so the question really is does lfs not relay the right commands to the wheel for it to turn fast ? or is there any way to make it turn faster at all ? or/and does the dfp prevent the user from turning it fast to protect the speed control ?

There's always a limit how fast a electric motor can turn, if you just keep feeding more and more power to it it will burn out. I'm guessing the motor is kept sanely small because of children (who shouldn't be touching the wheel in the first place).

Kev, I'm sure it will cure AIDS too while at it.

Thanks for all the advice guys I'll stick CF at 0% and checked.

Quote from Matrixi :

There's always a limit how fast a electric motor can turn, if you just keep feeding more and more power to it it will burn out. I'm guessing the motor is kept sanely small because of children (who shouldn't be touching the wheel in the first place).

Kev, I'm sure it will cure AIDS too while at it.

having accidently put my finger between a spoke of the wheel and a cup when i switched the pc on with the wheel attached, i can confirm that the motor is more than strong enough to hurt

Quote from tinvek :

having accidently put my finger between a spoke of the wheel and a cup when i switched the pc on with the wheel attached, i can confirm that the motor is more than strong enough to hurt

:ices_rofl

Quote from Matrixi :

There's always a limit how fast a electric motor can turn, if you just keep feeding more and more power to it it will burn out. I'm guessing the motor is kept sanely small because of children (who shouldn't be touching the wheel in the first place).

im not sure about the gearing ot the motor theyre using but generally electic motor rev rather high

of course you still have the magnets slowing down the motor a lot ... maybe they should try to use triphase synchonmotors instead of those standard dc motors (might cause the wheels to get a lot more expensive though)

It is my understanding that with older drivers (pre 4.60) there was a bug so you needed to have centering force checked but set at 0%. With the 4.60 drivers, this was taken care of and you no longer need it checked.

Tweak, the fact that you have the old red Momo may be the reason as Logitech probably only updated the drivers for the black Momo and the DFP.

Using current drivers (4.60) I don't think there is any difference in checking or unchecking the centering force using a black Momo or DFP.

This thread has been great and has highlighted the only doubts i have about the DFP force feedback in LFS- not been able to return to center quick enough. In real life regardless of car config, there would rarely be much resistance in these situations slicks or not. Go look at drivers in most racing cars- they saw at the wheel at rate that in certain situations (ie returning to centre after a drift) the DFP simply wont allow (well without waking the neighbours and lifting two legs of the table off the floor). Its as if the DFP is overdamped in these situations.

Its a shame because the feeling of being on the edge of adhesion is great in nearly all situations and allows a realistic seat of the pants style of driving.

Iv found out alone v.low or 0 centering spring is best so we must be thinking along the same lines.

What are the implications of power steering to FF and LFS? Most racing cars (including F1 cars) have power steering so a direct connection to the forces at the wheel could be argued not to be realistic anyway. I may be wrong but I think the MRT and the LX cars are the only ones that wouldnt have PS in real life.