What the manufacturers call it - which will depend on fashion, marketing, image, intended markets - and what category I consider that same car to be in don't have to match.

I know what a GT car is - it's almost defined in the words "Grand" and "Touring". A Carrera GT clearly isn't a GT car (even if it might actually be good for that - I've yet to drive one), just like my MX-5 is actually surprising good at going to the Supermarket, but it isn't a hatchback econobox. I've also used my car for collections and deliveries, but it's no Transit (or Sprinter to keep the subject in view)

Yeah nowadays even graphics cards are named GT

Precisely. I don't know a graphics card that will get you from Madrid to Berlin almost without noticing. A good GT car should. In a sports car you'd be constantly fighting the urge not to drive the whole way on non-motorways or to stop at every race track you pass for a quick few laps.

Need a better definition of GT than that. By that definition my lil 330D would be a GT as four of us went IOM-London-Brussels-Amsterdam-Nurburgring-Paris-Geneva-Alps-Pisa-Rome-Rimini-IOM in it this summer. It literally wafted us 4,000 miles round Europe in 17 days.

Then you haven't tried a proper GT car. You wouldn't even notice you were wafted!

In my opinion a GT car is defined as follows:


a) Reasonbly powerful engine, but with a good amount of torque so that you don't need to constantly change gear, (possibly auto or semi-auto).

b) Above average handling but balanced with ride comfort. In order to allow you to make rapid progress but without a harsh ride.

c) Large enough to fit 4 adults, (generally speaking), in comfort, carry a reasonable amount of luggage, (ie not just a golf case).


Fairly simple criteria IMO.

a) 230hp and over 370 torques (about the same torque as the M5). No need to change gear, with peak torque at 1,750rpm there's no need to dip below 5th. Tick.

b) M-Sport package gives oodles of grip and no understeer. Only jiggly on things like muddy tracks. Tick.

c) Took 4 of us plus luggage for 3 weeks. Tick.

No one though would describe a 330d as a GT car, so there must be something else to it. Looks - is there a certain shape? X-Factor maybe? Does it have to be "exclusive" or have obvious luxury?

That is a "Touring" car. You missed out the GRAND part.

That's what I'm getting at - it fits that fella's three criteria for a GT so the question is, "what else?"

Try a proper GT car - like, say, a Bentley Continental GT - and you'll feel the difference.

Most people haven't driven a Bentley Continental GT, so saying "a GT is like a Bentley Continental GT" isn't really a criteria. It's a bit like describing the colour blue to someone with monochromatic vision as "you know, bluey".

I've looked at thread tittle to make sure i'm in the right thread..

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

Most people haven't driven a Bentley Continental GT, so saying "a GT is like a Bentley Continental GT" isn't really a criteria. It's a bit like describing the colour blue to someone with monochromatic vision as "you know, bluey".

its not tristans fault that youre poor

It's not my fault you miss the point.

This thread is still not for poor people, go away commies!

Anyway, I heard them Mercedes drivers would receive equal treatment by the team? What's with that, it's not like Schumi could possibly be quicker around than Nico anyway?

Schumacher has never had a contract stating he is the number one driver and others must fall in behind him. Irvine said it himself - he made himself number one by driving faster than his team mates. Occasionally they then had to put the team before themselves but it's not like Rubens moved over every race for Schumi - 95% of the time he was behind because he was slower.

It's a great benchmark for Nico. He's blown away team mates so far but now he has one that can provide a decent measure of the young German's true ability.

Quote from Storm_Cloud :

...
It's a great benchmark for Nico. He's blown away team mates so far but now he has one that can provide a decent measure of the young German's true ability.

Assuming of course that Michael still has the "touch". He's been out of the sport for quite a while and reaction times etc do slow down as you get older.

Personally, I'm not so sure this is a good move for him. Think he may well not be very competitive. It's not as if he has anything to prove anyway. It's all got too much of the feeling of a "past it" boxer trying to revive his former glory by getting in to the ring that one to many times.

I agree I can see this year as being a major flop.

Quote from gezmoor :

Assuming of course that Michael still has the "touch". He's been out of the sport for quite a while and reaction times etc do slow down as you get older.

Personally, I'm not so sure this is a good move for him. Think he may well not be very competitive. It's not as if he has anything to prove anyway. It's all got too much of the feeling of a "past it" boxer trying to revive his former glory by getting in to the ring that one to many times.

HHmm... I am not so sure. F1, unlike boxing, isn't as physically dependant. Of course F1 drivers have to be fit, but not to the extent that a 41 year old is at any real disadvantage. And I saw Schumacher for 4 days in las vegas racing, and he didn't look like a "past it" boxer to me. For sure he didn't have the pace of the professionals, but he still has a lot of fight, and raw speed. There was a few ol' Schumacher moments though. One cracker had him nearly pile some dude into the barriers at 60-70 mph

Schumacher will know the level of fitness he needs to be competitive in F1. All this kart/bike/whatever he can get his hands on racing is designed to measure his fitness against what he feels is necessary for F1.

Everyone in F1 seems to think RedBull are building something special, so I think the Brawn/Schumacher relationship is going to be key to all this. I expect Schumacher to have a crap first GP though and the media to go over the top.

It's lose lose for Nico anyway. If he beats Schumi it's because Schumacher is past it, and if he loses... well he loses.

Quote from gezmoor :

Assuming of course that Michael still has the "touch". He's been out of the sport for quite a while and reaction times etc do slow down as you get older.

Personally, I'm not so sure this is a good move for him. Think he may well not be very competitive. It's not as if he has anything to prove anyway. It's all got too much of the feeling of a "past it" boxer trying to revive his former glory by getting in to the ring that one to many times.

I understand where You are coming from, however I strongly believe that the Rain Master will provide wins for Mercedes. He is not making his comeback because he hopes he can provide average results, he is back because he knows he can still win races. I feel pretty strongly that he indeed will provide top results (well I am really hoping though).

Not sure if this has been touched upon but the Vettel Vs Schumacher relationship could be very interesting!!!

Quote from Intrepid :

HHmm... I am not so sure. F1, unlike boxing, isn't as physically dependant. Of course F1 drivers have to be fit, but not to the extent that a 41 year old is at any real disadvantage. And I saw Schumacher for 4 days in las vegas racing, and he didn't look like a "past it" boxer to me. For sure he didn't have the pace of the professionals, but he still has a lot of fight, and raw speed. There was a few ol' Schumacher moments though. One cracker had him nearly pile some dude into the barriers at 60-70 mph

Schumacher will know the level of fitness he needs to be competitive in F1. All this kart/bike/whatever he can get his hands on racing is designed to measure his fitness against what he feels is necessary for F1.

Everyone in F1 seems to think RedBull are building something special, so I think the Brawn/Schumacher relationship is going to be key to all this. I expect Schumacher to have a crap first GP though and the media to go over the top.

It's lose lose for Nico anyway. If he beats Schumi it's because Schumacher is past it, and if he loses... well he loses.

Being out of F1 for 3 years is the biggest disadvantage imo.

Quote from lamerr :

I understand where You are coming from, however I strongly believe that the Rain Master will provide wins for Mercedes. He is not making his comeback because he hopes he can provide average results, he is back because he knows he can still win races. I feel pretty strongly that he indeed will provide top results (well I am really hoping though).

Last person to win a title after coming back from retiring was Alain Prost in 1992, however Prost was only 37 and he was only gone for 1 year, add the fact he was in an extremely dominate car and hes team mate was a rookie, and cars back then were less stressful for the body.

Schumacher has alot of things to contend with:
-Much more competitive field of cars
-Fitter drivers
-Team mate looks set to be highly competitive
-oldest F1 driver for over 15 years

I think he can be competitive but F1 isn't how it used to be where if your in a top team your garrenteed wins.

Field is VERY competitive for the upcoming season, he will definately struggle, but it's good for the sport and it made an awesome season even more awesome.. Only Kimi the partybreaker spoiled it a bit..

You can't really copare an old boxer to an old F1 driver, however as with any sport there are always examples of golden oldies - Bernard Hopkins for example.

I don't see why a fired up 41 year old can't be better than a tired and jaded 38 year old.