So, I'm opening that thread in order to protest against a certain disrespect to the rules done by the admins, with the top 15 locked-out system.

As a reminder, here are the regulations on the matter :

Quote :

The top 15 in the championship before each round shall be 'locked-in' - that means they automatically qualify for that round. (For Round 1 this means the top 15 from the previous year). All remaining spaces required to make up the total number of starters shall be contested by a Pre-Qualification System. Only the top 50 from Pre-Qualifying will make it through to the Reserve shootout(s). The fastest 15 drivers from the Reserve Shootouts, along within the 'locked-in' drivers, will form the grid for that iTCC round.

Here's the locked-in drivers list for round 2 :

Quote :

177 N. Catsburg
99 F. Enersen
28 J. Souai
47 C. Wilkinson
116 E. Bitan
94 P. Diaz
131 P. Dolezal
129 M. Lopino
60 N. Vallee
95 D. Faurie
91 K. Kliaudaitis
105 D. Lind
123 F. Gehammar
1 N. Scott
100 H. Marques

No offense to Mr.Marques, but I find rather unfair to see him on that list, while he is only in 16th position in the championship standings. Indeed, the rules clearly mention that "The top 15 in the championship before each round shall be 'locked-in' - that means they automatically qualify for that round." As far as I know, there's nothing stating that the 16th person in the championship standings shall get locked in for the next round in case someone in the top 15 is excluded for the next event.

Therefore, Mr.Marques's slot should be given to the 17th position runner of the shootout sessions.

Its top 15 available drivers I think.

Similar if someone does pre qualy and gets in the top 50 to not ba able make it. You just work your way down the list.

Quote from scotty2888 :

Its top 15 available drivers I think.
.

The rules could hardly be clearer : "The top 15 in the championship before each round shall be 'locked-in' - that means they automatically qualify for that round". There's no mention of "available drivers" in that

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Therefore, Mr.Marques's slot should be given to the 17th position runner of the shootout sessions.

Err, what happens to H.Marques then?

I would imagine that since Ostgaard is excluded from racing in the iTCC as of this post, that he is no longer counted within the top 15.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

The rules could hardly be clearer : "The top 15 in the championship before each round shall be 'locked-in' - that means they automatically qualify for that round". There's no mention of "available drivers" in that

Im not saying disputing the way the rules are written. Im saying it would be my guess thats whats happened to keep 15 drivers locked in and the pressure to do well in the pre qualy stages.

Quote from need :

I would imagine that since Ostgaard is excluded from racing in the iTCC as of this post, that he is no longer counted within the top 15.

Correct.
Also I don't know why you didn't just raise this point in the FAQ or Discussion Thread. Rather pointless opening a new thread that will only be filled with "ZOMG SC!!!!!11!!!one" and "ZOMG NO BALLAST!!!!!111!!!!!oneone!1!"

Quote from need :

I would imagine that since Ostgaard is excluded from racing in the iTCC as of this post, that he is no longer counted within the top 15.

This doesn't make much sense, as he's on the still on the top 15 of the championship standing. But oh well, fair enough.

And btw, he's not excluded from iTCC, just banned for 2 months.

Quote from Wilko868 :

Correct.
Also I don't know why you didn't just raise this point in the FAQ or Discussion Thread. Rather pointless opening a new thread that will only be filled with "ZOMG SC!!!!!11!!!one" and "ZOMG NO BALLAST!!!!!111!!!!!oneone!1!"

Meh, yea, might've been a silly idea to open that thread. But I thought that a complaint thread would be needed at some point(GTAL sub-forum fashion), so
Feel free to merge it into FAQ/Discussion or just delete it if you feel it innapropriate anyway. Sorry for the trouble.

Hi guys,

Yeah so I guess this has arisen due to Ostgaard's penalty, with him unavailable, I took the 16th place driver, as this is my interpretation of the 'top 15 drivers in the Championship' . I don't regard Ostgaard as being in the Championship right now.

What you've highlighted Yann, is that the rules can be interpreted in more than one way. and are therefore ambiguous - the meaning is not clear. So I'll look at a re-write of that rule in order to make it clearer. Just to make it clear as of now, my interpretation is that the top 15 means the top 15 drivers on points, taking into consideration suspension/exclusion.

I'll leave this thread here, I welcome (reasonable!) discussions about what could be improved in iTCC, in the short term and long term, and also it gives racers a place to get something off their chest, and admins a place to explain why things happen as they happen. That's the whole point of a forum IMO.

well, Im still in the championship... Im on the list, which means I must be in the championship. If I wasnt, I wouldnt been there, right? :P

Personally, I think that the rules which could need some re-writting is the one that concerns penalties.

It's just semantics, but at the end of the day, having a driver "excluded" from the championship, instead of "suspended", makes a huge difference as we see here.

Excluding a driver usually means - in practical terms - erasing him from the series. Having said driver on the championship tables effectivelly cancels the exclusion, as the driver is still there! Furthermore, it's a little strange to determine that an excluded driver is back after two months as it should be up to the driver himself to choose whether he wants to rejoin the series or not.

Suspending a driver, on the other hand, means the driver is still participating on the series but simply isn't allowed to take part in sanctioned events for sometime - which, in the way I see it, is what happened to Mr. Ostgaard.

In this particular case, both sides are correct, imho. If, as GreyBull [CHA] says, Ostgaard was "suspended", he's still in the top-15 of the champion ship and, not being able to attend the race, his case should be dealt with just like any other qualified driver that fails to join the race in time.

If, as need says, he was indeed excluded from the series (albeit only for two months, as odd as that sounds), there is no T. Ostgaard racing anymore and the top15 includes Mr. Marques (regardless of whether the drivers that finished behind him have had their points recalculated or not).

Just my two cents.

They never said Ostergard would loose his points Yuri. Just that he will be temporerily suspended for 2 months. Therefor there is nothing to recalculate.

Quote from scotty2888 :

They never said Ostergard would loose his points Yuri. Just that he will be temporerily suspended for 2 months. Therefor there is nothing to recalculate.

I'm aware of that, I was just covering all bases.

Quote from Tomhah :

well, Im still in the championship... Im on the list, which means I must be in the championship. If I wasnt, I wouldnt been there, right? :P

I think I have understood lol

I've just read the OP (yes I'm busy with things. Go away :P) and Yann is right about the top-15 being the top-15 people only and not promoting people >top15 in because

1) That was the case last season
2) That's what the rules say
3) That's what I'd say.

Hi guys

I was surprise when i saw that, but after i saw tommy was suspended i realized i jumped one position. the question here is: whether or not tommy lost the points? because if he didn't lose is points, i think is unfair i jump one position.

For finnish, i and to say, i have no problem in go to shootout and/or pre qualify. i'm here for fun and to race, not to jump the rules for more 1 or 2
position and points. i like to see a fair champion and clean races, thats why i'm in iTCC

Best Regards,

Hugo Marques


P.S. sory my English

hey guys, i think there is a fairly simple solution which is probably most logical. I have not read all posts, only the first, and Joe's post.

Rule is straight forward - Top 15 in points make it through as LOCKED drivers. Banned drivers is still part of the championship, serving a ban. He is therefore 15th in the championship and "locked in". However, he will not take part in the event, and we will therefore expect the top 16 drivers from shootout to make it through...

Quote from Dizzydarryn :

hey guys, i think there is a fairly simple solution which is probably most logical. I have not read all posts, only the first, and Joe's post.

Rule is straight forward - Top 15 in points make it through as LOCKED drivers. Banned drivers is still part of the championship, serving a ban. He is therefore 15th in the championship and "locked in". However, he will not take part in the event, and we will therefore expect the top 16 drivers from shootout to make it through...

*huuhuuuuuum...* 11th place :rolleyes:

You probably are better off without me, NDR ruind this championship with all their lame rules.. so yeah have fun with the 'good' admins ´


Bye iTCC, thanks for a very good 1st season.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

+1

Quote from Dennis93 :

You probably are better off without me, NDR ruind this championship with all their lame rules.. so yeah have fun with the 'good' admins ´


Bye iTCC, thanks for a very good 1st season.

hmm either I've missed something or I'm just dumb but as far as I know the core of all the rules is the same as last season. And just as far as I know there just have been some adjustment to the safety car procedure. Ehm and the current rulebook version is version 1.00 which is in fact written before there was the merger. I hope I didn't mix something up. Still I'm interested: anyone knows what rules he meant?

Quote from TFalke55 :

hmm either I've missed something or I'm just dumb but as far as I know the core of all the rules is the same as last season. And just as far as I know there just have been some adjustment to the safety car procedure. Ehm and the current rulebook version is version 1.00 which is in fact written before there was the merger. I hope I didn't mix something up. Still I'm interested: anyone knows what rules he meant?

Exclusion rules, none of those last year even though there was way worse than this.

I've never heard of rules allowing anyone to act like a numpty or to wreck the half of the field anyway :sadbanana

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

I've never heard of rules allowing anyone to act like a numpty or to wreck the half of the field anyway :sadbanana

Good point

/thread.