I don't know if that's correct example, but you can do little drifting before corners to brake your car without loosing power. Hope you understand what i mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAo5ylZYip8
Have you ever considered the idea of F1 drivers don't use the drift technique in order to preserve the tyres? A F1 race is not a 3 or 5 laps stint, and the tyres need to be preserved during a weekend since they are limited. I'm talking about F1 but could have mentioned BTCC, WTCC, DTM, GP2 and other disciplines...
In real life, if you slide around all corners, you won't do a good time. But if you slide a bit in some corners, you can get out of it a little bit faster.
And yes, LFS is not real enougth, or it wouldn't be called "simulation"...
There was quite a big slide going in turn one, but other than that the car was on the limit with a touch of oversteer. Not exactly D1GP.
Regarding the world record, everybody is using the same car on the same track. We're not comparing to a real-life lap time because no computer sim is like real-life however hard the developers try.
Dont forget IRL you will lose some downforce aswell (mostly formula) if you oversteer to much. Force angles will change etc. Depends on weight alot aswell. I have the feeling in FZR and FXR this is unrealistic. There are some drivers who prefer understeer over oversteer. So probably its not just oversteer which is best.
I did formula and touring and GT IRL and to be honest LFS is close but doesnt come close to the real thing when it comes to F.e. setups. And mainly tyre physics
In fact i think if LFS is able to make a 100% realistic car and handling the times will be much faster in LFS then in real life. In LFS there is no risk, unlimited testing possibility's etc etc etc.
The one thing you miss aswell behind a pc is the feeling Ur just staring at a screen.
But in the end LFS is a game/sim and if you're a racer you try to go as fast as possible. If you say "i don't drive like that because it's unreal" Then that's just a lame excuse for being incapable :P
Don't get me wrong, I am no near tallented or fast enough to be even 2 seconds withing their times, but world record laps, specially in the GTR's just looks completely insane and nothing like real racing. It's impressive yes, but I don't think some of the situations are realistic.
Sure, some of it it due to the insane setups, but I pretty much belive driving like that won't be possible in real life.
It's not really drifting. The drivers in the examples above are not trying to get big, high-angle slides. They're trying to get the most lateral force possible out of the tires, not showing off. Maximum force requires a certain amount of slip, but slip results in heavy wear, so it's not really something you do for more than a lap or two. There may be other effects on the tire composition (e.g. graining) that would discourage this practice as well.
There's also the fact that the conditions in LFS are, for the most part, static. With the exception of tire temp, tire wear, and fuel load, nothing really changes over the course of a lap or two. Even the things that do change are very predictable. This means you can basically drive the same exact lap, over and over, knowing exactly how the car will respond right on the limit at any particular spot on the track.
I know what they are doing and why, I was the one who brought it up. The simple fact of the matter is this, it is a simulation and at the moment it is possible to drive laps unrealistically to achieve faster times than would be in real life. Accept it, deal with it and move on. Easy.
I got my assumption that with underpowered car (regarding mass not grip) the point is to preserve momentum thru corners (like in rallies ) so a bit of sliding is welcomed. With overpowered car the point is not to loose any of the power by sliding.
Ive read the thread and now feel that i have to join in on this...
1st of all, statements like "i dont care about WR cause they are unrealistic" is very lame IMO... sounds like something a 10 y/o would say when he is jealous(spelling?)
To the case... im not sure its that unrealistic really, if you watch real racing you sometimes (from certain angle) can se the cars going a tiny tiny bit sideways. On bikes this is especially visible...
There is also the factor that LFS is a game... even if the physics where exactly the same as IRL, LFS times would be faster(like already stated).
Why is this?
1. The LFS car doesnt cost money, it also doesnt cost money to fix, so therefore there is no money to loose if you crash.
2. If you crash you press shift+P and you have the car fixed so you dont loose time fixing the car.
3. You can tweak the settings faster in LFS than in IRL so you save time on that..
4. you also have unlimited tracktime. unlimited tires and so on and so on..
5. And the msot important factor... it doenst hurt if you crash..
Im sure if you made a f1 setup that lasted only 1 lap going all out, and if the driver is nuts enough... and you have unlimited everything for practice and such... we very well could see a f1 car sliding around the track to make a superfast time.
Off topic: Lewis Hamilton likes to have a lose backend as he feels more incontrol of the car. he has said this in this first season talking to a ITV reporter.
On topic: I myself find that different cars suit different people so a fxr could go faster around a FB track than a FZR, if that person exceled at driving the fxr around a fb track. but also depends on driving style as i said lews hamilton ikes a lose back end. some one else like it ridiged. some like stiff suppension some like soft
but it all come done to driver and setup
As stated before I have nothing against these laps, and basically it's not the sliding part, but the whole "feel" of it. It's just.. well to me it looks too much like an game compared to what's actually possible in real life.
But agian, don't get me wrong, these guys does laptimes several seconds faster than me and I am not jelous, just defends the ones saying it looks unrealistic, alltho it has nothing to do with the actually topic
Well..darn, either way, good for them, the ones that are possible to drive that fast
Maximum lateral force is achieved when the car holds its line with the steering wheel as straight as possible after the turn is initiated, such that the slip angles on both the front and rear tires are equal.
I observed my best laptimes when the outer wheels had optimum lateral grip and inner slighly slipping, around apex especially, and thats how I set my setups.
I totally understand your point, and I knew about it already, but the difference is between a car that can be steered more easily and drifting into a corner. To my mind, and all the super fast qualifying and race laps I have seen watching F1 they have never drifted or braked hard over the curbs. That is the reason why I am defending my position here.
To 'The Very End' - I also know what your saying, the laps seem almost too perfect, as if it has been driven hundreds if not thousands of times at full throttle until one lucky lap however the odds are in real life holds together. My point is, it's not how a simulation should be, whether or not it's a fault in the physics or the nature of the 'free and restart' environment.
That looks to me like traction problems, seems like it slows him down he hesitates on the throttle for a very long time, not least he loses it completely on the next lap.
Well we have established that it's hit and miss whether it happens at one corner of one circuit, which just happens to be a very slipperly one at best - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21M-YzoS9g4
That is still not proof you will have to do a lot better than that.
The slip angle requirement for optimal four-corner grip is different with different tires. I'm going to completely guess numbers, but a road car can get away with up to 10 or more degrees before you have to countersteer, because the side walls are soft. A Formula 1 car is less than 2, because it has extremely strong side walls. Even if they were using zero-steer techniques, it would be hard to spot without looking at hard data. I suspect they also don't use it because of airflow reasons.
If you really want to understand slip angle, try rallying. Lack of surface friction and soft side walls means a huge difference in cornering speed and steering control between 0 and 30 or more degrees of slip angle. Ever seen a rally car understeer while carrying drift angle? Happens all the time.
Fact is it is mathematically proven that fast laps are done with less steering input. The more angle you carry, up to a point, the less steering you have to use. Anyone who's ever used a data logger knows this. Ross Bentley did a chapter on it in Speed Secrets 6, even though he didn't get technical. The amount of drift is not important, what's happening with the wheel is. If the wheel is approaching zero steering input during a corner, then that's all you need to know that the car is four-wheel-drifting. Especially on the exits during a pole lap, you can see this in Formula 1 cars - they tend to give "stabs" of zero-steering while adding power.
I don't think that's the best example. Trailing throttle under brakes is a commonly understood bug. You don't drive the real car like that. They're set up to teach you to trail brake.
Now a Spec Racer Ford (in real life, not iRacing), that is definitely a throttle-on car from entry to exit. The rear suspension is so stiff that you need to weight it to get any grip. If you get into a slide in one of those you need to add throttle or spin.
I actually don't trail any throttle while braking in the Skippy, nor do I on my race bike. I was referring to turn-in or steady state cornering while off the brakes, where being off the throttle will result in oversteer.
