Wrong, on so many levels....
And it is people like you that threads like these are made
And it is people like you that threads like these are made
You missed my point and went off on a tangent. So take a deep breath and calm down. I did not mention any specific drivers but more a driver mentality which I call hotlap racer. Let me expand.
There are many great people that hold hotlap records and it was not a dig at any of them as the names you mention are respected hot lapping and racing so climb off your high horse for a while
I was pointing out that some drivers have a mentality when they race that racing is the same as hotlapping, when we all know they are very different skills.
Racing is compromise where you have to react to the situation around you and take other drivers actions into account while a hotlap you have the track to yourself and can put to the limits. So the people I call hotlap racers fail to understand this.
You will also find the people I call hotlap racers are the people that bitch if wind is on for example because they care more about lap time than race position. In a race lap time means nothing, only position matters, and normally your lap times are lower because fighting for position effects the lap time of both people in the fight for position.
Hope that helps lower your blood pressure and let you see what I was talking about
The short 3-5 lap races really compound this issue a hugh amount as well. When you have a 10+ lap race you have time to fall into a pace and look for mistakes in the driver in front and have time to presure them into mistakes. In a sprint race too many drivers get red mist.
Good point, but I think you and General AL can both agree, that good hotlappers are usually good racers...
The issue is, the term hotlappers is used to categorise a certain behaviour of driving which you have so eloquently pointed out, but all good hotlappers in my experience have loads of LFS racing experience and are probably the best and fairest drivers in LFS, so it doesn't fit the description that people label them with. Simply say, some people are fast but simply have no racecraft, or are flucking idiots, or cannot race for toffee, but to use the hotlapper term is just wrong... IMHO of course
The issue is, the term hotlappers is used to categorise a certain behaviour of driving which you have so eloquently pointed out, but all good hotlappers in my experience have loads of LFS racing experience and are probably the best and fairest drivers in LFS, so it doesn't fit the description that people label them with. Simply say, some people are fast but simply have no racecraft, or are flucking idiots, or cannot race for toffee, but to use the hotlapper term is just wrong... IMHO of course
I agree the term I use can be confused but it also is a good description of those that think they can race in the same way you set a hotlap. No race craft is a far wider category of people and include new people that no nothing of race lines etc so does not carry the same meaning
That said bbman had no problem understanding what I originally said so it was clear when read all the way through instead of reading a word like hotlap out of context then reacting with a rant
You are a textbook case of someone who doesn't understand one bit of racing, and it's so saddening that so many like you found their way to sim racing... EVERY SINGLE rulebook of any motorsport series CLEARLY states that it is the LAPPER'S responsibility to ensure a safe pass - meaning the only difference to a normal pass is that the lappee is advised not to actively defend his position, but he would very well be entitled to drive bang on racing line! Every deviation from it that he makes is courtesy on his behalf!
OMG, only just spotted this sentence in your post.
Can you explain which rulebook you've been reading? Every set of rules I can remember reading states that a car lapping backmarkers should expect to lose time.
That is the source of invention of GT2 class and balancing restrictions
Just to clarify somthing about my earlier post in this thread, it wasnt a rant.
Just pointing out that the term "hot lapper racer" that was used to describe this type of behaviour, is & was quite misleading and frustating, and instulting for the majoroty of hotlappers.
Just pointing out that the term "hot lapper racer" that was used to describe this type of behaviour, is & was quite misleading and frustating, and instulting for the majoroty of hotlappers.
Google for "adjective". He says "hot laper racer" in which "racer" is the adjective giving description to the "hot lapper". By adding an adjective, it differentiates "Hot lapper racer" and "Hot lapper."
There was so many words underlined in red from Firefox it was pathetic. If I missed any other mistypings in that short narrative, please forgive me.
I have spent all day playing on IRacers and I have to say that the attitude on that game is spot on.
I have not had a single problem despite it being my first day. I have a had a few 20 lap races and not once got in a fast drivers way becuase when it came to it they overtook me in a safe place and all I got was "thanks" from fast drivers as I was using blue flag rules correctly.
I know IRacers is much more expensive, but the difference in my enjoyment cannot be measured. I even came 6th in one race and was battling for 5th while being lapped and had no probs at all.
The attitude of some fast drivers is at fault on LFS in my limited experience.
Thanks for the replies, I'm going back on IRacers for some more clean racing without a single bit of grief from anybody.
I have not had a single problem despite it being my first day. I have a had a few 20 lap races and not once got in a fast drivers way becuase when it came to it they overtook me in a safe place and all I got was "thanks" from fast drivers as I was using blue flag rules correctly.
I know IRacers is much more expensive, but the difference in my enjoyment cannot be measured. I even came 6th in one race and was battling for 5th while being lapped and had no probs at all.
The attitude of some fast drivers is at fault on LFS in my limited experience.
Thanks for the replies, I'm going back on IRacers for some more clean racing without a single bit of grief from anybody.
you know, if I were to pay 8 to 14 bucks a month I will have to be racing couple of hours daily, not just taking some races from time to time. 
But if I were... I would climb on those crappy ranks everywhere in LFS, 24 quids for once 
But if I were... I would climb on those crappy ranks everywhere in LFS, 24 quids for once Yes please.
Agreed. Thinking on from my last reply, maybe call them quackers?
(qualifer/crackers)
Ok lets see I usually defend new users.... but your giving me a hard time here.
You are comparing organised racing to public sprint races on multiclass servers and complaining of grief.
I suggest kindly that before you go off into paradise maybe test some organised racing in LFS. Thats the kind part btw, then please share your thougts again.
Oh MrRodgers.... your point is that hot lappers do not race?, or are you just asking for forgiveness for missing errors in my grammar, your spelling, my spelling? Or just snide attempt to educate the new ones in how this forum operates?
Promote Iracing? Cure insomnia?
The point is. This thread is made by a racer with from what I can tell from LFSWorld and the questions the user has posed.
That he is new to sim racing, and the styles of servers in LFS.
The user states that he is a very inexpericened racer, that is having difficulties in coping with faster traffic (surely its just not the one blue flag he is having difficulty with now surely).
Some very good posts made, and helpful explinations, and some cheap shots.
And now that hes caused a hurricane in a teacup, hes off for delightful jolly.
So what have we learnt.
A. Dont judge a book by its writing (advice given)
B. The colour of your skin does not make you drive faster (although red is in your head)
C. Idiots will follow where fools tread hopelessly. (racing lines)
D. No matter how hard you try, you can always try harder (please be my guest)
The problem is that sometimes new racers try and fail to hold the racing line under blueflag conditions,they will slowdown, pull wide the closer you get, taking both the racing line the passing line and a corner exit. Or just stop dead and then spectate. Then comes the other part of the problem, the voteban happy crowd, the quackers type racer then ploughs on his line regardless.
Resulting in this thread. Time will tell and wounds will heal. But disrespecting a blue flag and blaming hotlappers !!!!!!1111
Its only natural as new users gotta learn, as well as some oldies myself included.
peace o/
* note to myself " Bigger parking lots propose in the improvement suggestion thread "
BYE TROLL
Who's winning anyone have the score?
Those Hotlappers are causing all the problems, how dare they set fast lap times, avoid them like the plague.
As for Iracing when you drive the cars its just on another level from anything I pretended to drive before , but it faces the same problems that LFS does.
1:No one is ever wrong and they will defend that postion untill there's no one left to listen.
2: In Iracing the hotlappers get special black colours to warn you about them
The more thing change the more they stay the same.
Those Hotlappers are causing all the problems, how dare they set fast lap times, avoid them like the plague.
As for Iracing when you drive the cars its just on another level from anything I pretended to drive before , but it faces the same problems that LFS does.
1:No one is ever wrong and they will defend that postion untill there's no one left to listen.
2: In Iracing the hotlappers get special black colours to warn you about them
The more thing change the more they stay the same.
The best thing to do in LFS to get rid of this kamikaze arcade style of driving, is to stay away from it and join a league or something... i absolutely hated racing in LFS for a good while, i found it boring and pointless since i always ended up being rear ended in T1 or getting spun out att last corner last lap because someone wanted to gain a position fast.
Then i tried out league racing, and it got me hooked... i join in on a race once a week(if i like the combo) and the race is worth the wait defenetly... 45min of awesome racing and an awesome yet very competetive atmosphere on the server, minimum amount of crashes(even though they happen), a tolerance for slow drivers, and ofcourse slow drivers that dont want to mess up so they leave room.
It´s awesome and should be experienced by everyone.
Though sometimes ivé been wondering about starting a private server, and starting sort of a "club" for clean and good racers.. and thus carefully distributing the password only to racers that behave... in the beginning it would be a kinda small crowd... but if you like the swedish community have like a good 20 racers wich would pass the "clean test".... and then pull out like 10-20 from like 2 or more other countries you would soon have a rather sweet crowd of clean racers having a blast...
sorry for rant...
Then i tried out league racing, and it got me hooked... i join in on a race once a week(if i like the combo) and the race is worth the wait defenetly... 45min of awesome racing and an awesome yet very competetive atmosphere on the server, minimum amount of crashes(even though they happen), a tolerance for slow drivers, and ofcourse slow drivers that dont want to mess up so they leave room.
It´s awesome and should be experienced by everyone.
Though sometimes ivé been wondering about starting a private server, and starting sort of a "club" for clean and good racers.. and thus carefully distributing the password only to racers that behave... in the beginning it would be a kinda small crowd... but if you like the swedish community have like a good 20 racers wich would pass the "clean test".... and then pull out like 10-20 from like 2 or more other countries you would soon have a rather sweet crowd of clean racers having a blast...
sorry for rant...
Just calm down and re-read my original post. You are too hung up associating what I said with something you and many other enjoy when it has been explained again and again and again that was not the case.
Here is the start of my post "LFS also does suffer what I will call hot lap racers.". The points of interest in this sentence are underlined!
Notice it did not say "LFS also suffers hot lappers" which is a very different sentence. The two sentences are VERY VERY different and mean very different things.
I then go on to actually explain in the post what I mean by a hot lap racer yet because you had locked in your mind (and still are hung up on) that it was an insult to hot lapping you failed to actually read what was being said and what context it was being said in.
Then when I expanded on what I mean so that everyone else understands you will still not let it go.
One final time.... It was not an insult to hot lappers. Grow up, let it go and get over it! The term does not matter, everyone else understands what was said and nobody else thinks it was an inslut to the LFS hot lap community.
Opps I was wrong. There is one other person that has not actually read what is being said. Noticed the word hot lap and then assumed I was insulting hot lappers.
JohnPenn also equals Fail!
Re-read what has been said but before you do remove from you mind it is an insult to the hotlap community. You might then actually understand and also agree with what has been said.
So instead of making blanket statements like that, simply back up your point with facts..
for instance from the original posters post (and every single server rule that I've read...
From OP's first post....
So what other 'level' is wrong (in your opinion)?
Again, don't state something you believe is fact unless you can back it up. Just post a link to any rule (real or game) where that does NOT have a line something like this in it MUST NOT HOLD UP THE FASTER CAR?? Bottom line is to NOT hold someone up you MUST get off the driving line and let the faster car pass.
Please read rules carefully before arguing with people. And, as typical with posters like YOU, it turns into a personal attack because you have no arguements.
I must DISAGREE
I will quote the Rules of Clean Racing again:
"L-2: The leading driver that is lapping the slower car must treat the situation as though he's overtaking a normal competitor - and not assume the lapped driver should leap out of the way at all costs. "
I understand the issue with short races and the higher implications that come with "traffic slowdown" for the leading driver.. but this is part of all kinds of racing IRL as well..
The problem comes when one must use judgement:
"L-3: The driver that is being lapped should let the lead driver past and/or not resist to be overtaken if the lead driver has sufficient overlap. Only move out of the way for the lead driver when you believe it is safe to do so. For example, not on the apex of a corner. "
..since the judgment will vary with the experience (and common sense) of the slower driver..
I think the bottom line is: we have to stick to the basic rule that in all situations, it is a regular overtaking, and thus should be realised within the rules..
Oh, I don't know, how about every rulebook of the FIA, the ACO? If more convenient, I'm sure you can find it in the SCCA regs as well... If you had made the trip to the LfS website you'd know that there is no guidelines on racing conduct there... Even the wiki entry for blue flags reads totally different... So you in fact can't back up your ridiculous rule while all the proper authorities disagree with you... Who has the arguments now?
You can also immediately stick a fork into the power socket, when you get a blue flag. When you have reconnected, it is gone. 
Slightly off topic, but keep reading.
When i used to be a part of the team dSRC around the time s2 was about to be released during those mad demo times.
We often had a busy server and the best way we found was once full/populated. Lock the server (password) filter out the timewaters/idiots (ban/kick) then open the server up etc.
This way everybody gets to know everyone, and there is more trust, and generally a much better experience allround.
Servers run like this are few and far between these days.
Most of the people here should remember [dSRC] Battlegrounds
Maybe its me but back then (and yes back then is only 4-5 years)
Most new racers were alot more respctful and possibly daunted by
The game itself. The same goes for this forum.
Nowadays theres alot of egos flying around, my own included.
People seem to have little paitence these days, veterans and new comers alike on and off the track ingame/forums.
But one thing that has driven my desire for LFS is the way it makes you constantly seek ways to improve oneself. Regardless of some of the nonsense you see posted in a high percentage of threads, or some of the driving you encounter along the way.
But maybe what im trying to point out is that respect ultimately is the key to understanding blue flag situations, and other racers.
One thing I hate with Blue Flag situations is when i'm getting blue flagged and the server automatic pits me for not letting the car behind pass me after a 10 seconds or whatever the server is having.
Now, I do let all pass me everytime, but what I hate is when i'm blue flagged and the guy is barely seeing in my mirrors. Often they never really catch up, so far away. And then the server pits me. That i hate.
Should be a extended blue flag really. One that warns you from the same distance, and then one that triggers the PITTING when the opponent actually is closer and not like now, barely visible in the mirrors.
Now, I do let all pass me everytime, but what I hate is when i'm blue flagged and the guy is barely seeing in my mirrors. Often they never really catch up, so far away. And then the server pits me. That i hate.
Should be a extended blue flag really. One that warns you from the same distance, and then one that triggers the PITTING when the opponent actually is closer and not like now, barely visible in the mirrors.
Don't think I've ever been on a server where that happened. Do you remember which server(s)?
Faster drivers are not always in the right..."noob" has had enough!!!
(93 posts, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG