That makes sense.
John Leslie, two of John Leslie's friends.
Am so.
Not only sportcars... these have swapped gear positions aswell... i know because my dad has owned a couple of theses and ive driven them...
...though i cant remember if R is where the 1st would normally be, or if 2nd is there and the R is left or 2nd... but i know they had that "dogleg" layout.. i actually prefer that layout to the "normal" one.
Usually automatic.
Shame everyone got in with the 190e Cosworth trivia before me
For reference in my RHD Car:
Gears.........Pedals
1 3 5..........Clutch Brake Accelerator
¦-¦-¦
2 4 R
Even more confusing in my car is the fact the indicator stalk is on the right, and the wipers are on the left - got me so many times when I was learning to drive in a Fiesta with it the other way round.
The Reynard and Dallara had dog-leg 1sts as well - as did 95% of h-shift race cars. Reverse was usually above 1st.
In some cars reverse would be all the way to the right and down (i.e. next to 5th).
Setting of in 2nd is embarrassing. Setting off in reverse is catastrophic, and easily done!
Column shifts are usually automatic on 'American' cars, but were usually manual on European cars. These days more Europeans are getting lazy (autos) and more Americans are seeing the light and learning to drive properly (manual).
An indicator/lighting stalk should be on the "driver's side" - i.e. on the right in right hand drive cars and on the left in left hand drive cars. This is so that one car flick the lights/indicators whilst changing gear. However, economic reasons (i.e. for cheapness) cars are not often converted in this regard from their country of origin. Hence Peugeots, Citroens, Mercedes (European) often have the indicator on the 'wrong' side in the UK, whilst cars from Japan or Korea (or England!) have them on the correct side.
The same applies to windscreen wipers. Ideally the wipers should be handed so that the drivers side gets a 'complete' clean, whilst the passenger side gets a partial clean - the Peugeot 206 was particularly poor; in RHD spec the drivers view was only half cleared, which meant visibility for tall drivers was seriously compromised. Again, the reason is cost/profit.
In some cars reverse would be all the way to the right and down (i.e. next to 5th).
Setting of in 2nd is embarrassing. Setting off in reverse is catastrophic, and easily done!
Column shifts are usually automatic on 'American' cars, but were usually manual on European cars. These days more Europeans are getting lazy (autos) and more Americans are seeing the light and learning to drive properly (manual).
An indicator/lighting stalk should be on the "driver's side" - i.e. on the right in right hand drive cars and on the left in left hand drive cars. This is so that one car flick the lights/indicators whilst changing gear. However, economic reasons (i.e. for cheapness) cars are not often converted in this regard from their country of origin. Hence Peugeots, Citroens, Mercedes (European) often have the indicator on the 'wrong' side in the UK, whilst cars from Japan or Korea (or England!) have them on the correct side.
The same applies to windscreen wipers. Ideally the wipers should be handed so that the drivers side gets a 'complete' clean, whilst the passenger side gets a partial clean - the Peugeot 206 was particularly poor; in RHD spec the drivers view was only half cleared, which meant visibility for tall drivers was seriously compromised. Again, the reason is cost/profit.
After driving European cars for years, then owning a Japanese car (MX5), for the first two weeks, I would wipe the windscreen to turn right, and indicate left to wipe the windscreen. Even now - nearly a year on - I sometimes wash the windscreen to flash somebody, and vice versa!
Indicator stalks on the right hand side makes much more sense in a RHD car though, for definite.
Indicator stalks on the right hand side makes much more sense in a RHD car though, for definite.
I think BMW M3 (dont know which generation but definitely older than E46) has this kind of transmission...it is made this way because in BMW they reckoned that if you are driving on the edge on a road full of corners you will probably use 2nd and 3rd gear the most and therefore it is easier to move shifter just up and down
picture: http://www.strathspey.co.uk/unixnerd/dogleg.jpg
Behold, the glory of an 80's hi-ace column shift :P
Trabant's had those too 
interesting topic
what I always wanted to know, is there a brand with the Reverse left of 1st, like the VAG cars have it?
R 1 3 5
\ | | |
| | |
2 4 6
what I always wanted to know, is there a brand with the Reverse left of 1st, like the VAG cars have it?
R 1 3 5
\ | | |
| | |
2 4 6
A brand of everyday, normal, cheaper cars you mean? And I assume that in your ASCII diagram that 1 and 2, 3 and 4, 5 and 6 are on the same plane as each other.
In his defence, the forum removes all leading spaces which broke what he meant.
I think my Dad's Kia is arranged like that, albeit with a pull-up reverse at the same time.
I think my Dad's Kia is arranged like that, albeit with a pull-up reverse at the same time.
my driving instructors car Daewoo something, boxy hatch 10 years ago was a 5 speed manual, with a reverse up and to the left. Had a collar you had to pull too.Which jammed up so you ended up in reverse instead of first. Good times @ traffic lights.
Also on strange gear shift things, on the last ep of top gear this season, clarkson was complaining about a "tiptronic" type up/down shift having the up as a pull backwards. I Always thought this was a more natural place to have it anyway, but apparently not? Also thought most rally cars with sequential boxes had a pull to go up gears, push to go down gears...maybe not?
Also on strange gear shift things, on the last ep of top gear this season, clarkson was complaining about a "tiptronic" type up/down shift having the up as a pull backwards. I Always thought this was a more natural place to have it anyway, but apparently not? Also thought most rally cars with sequential boxes had a pull to go up gears, push to go down gears...maybe not?
This video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-NwFH9JvAo - says pull back for gear up, and vice versa for gear down - makes sense as the g-forces pull you back as you accelerate, making it easier to pull back and vice versa for braking and downshifting.
yeah i agree with that. It was whatever that appauling BMW half wagon half SUV thing was that clarkson was bitching about *shrug*
The BMW tiptronic gearboxes have been the 'wrong way round' for quite a while. They are autos with a sequential lever, to change up you push forwards, to change down you pull back. Some people managed to re-work the wiring to get it the other, more natural way round.
Sure, plenty of cars have it. Opel, Renault, BMW and the New Mini. Don't know about the other French brands but it wouldn't surprise me if they have it like that as well.
given that its french chances are the actual reason is a cunning plot to kill off brits
driving on the road has nothing to do with it
both the w201-16v and the m3 were cars built for homologation back in the days when the road versions and the race cars had at least a few bits in common afaik including the gearbox
Type 9 ford boxes are quite fun, well the 5 speed anyway, Reverse, first, third and fifth are all along the top row of the gear lever. and theres none of this new psuh down/pull up business to get into reverse, can cause some nasty mistakes when trying to get first in a hurry!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI ... ize&item=320478945401 thats the best pic i could find.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayI ... ize&item=320478945401 thats the best pic i could find.
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Pedals on real cars
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