Quote from EQ Worry :

If everyone goes the same way, it is no cheating. The win is perfectly honest, everyone had the same conditions. True, if there is someone going the "right" way, he'll be causing lots of troubles. But if everyone is cutting, it indeed is much safer, faster, funnier....

Well, I guess you would not. Devs made the track go that way, it is the only correct way. I can understand the point. ....

But again, I repeat that I understand the idealistic point of view.

I see that you understand. But that logic does not make sense. For example: The speed limit on a highway is set to 50. Everyone on that road is going 70. The speed limit for that road is not 70 since everyone is going 70.

Quote from Hyperdrive :

My experience tells me the complete opposite is true and I'll offer a couple of reasons for this.

Inexperienced drivers have a tendency to overshoot while navigating the chicane, then clip or crash into the left side wall, resulting in an often unavoidable roadblock for anyone unlucky enough to be following.

The chicane can't be taken two abreast while at speed, so the start of any race invariably leads to a game of chicken where drivers gamble that the other guy will slam on the brakes and back off first. A big problem given how many drivers there are who are willing to take a chance, and with a large grid you can almost guarantee someone will get it wrong.

There's quite a margin between the speed the top drivers and the slower racers can take the chicane. If you're following an unknown driver this can make the whole experience incredibly unpredictable, and all on a section of track with little grip or room for correction. It does provide plenty of opportunity for overtaking, but gaps are often small and tricky to squeeze through.
Bad drivers will cause problems wherever they're racing. Force them through a tight and testing area of track such as T1 rather than the allowing them to cut across the expanse of gravel into an easy left and you can expect them to be far more disruptive. I say this as someone who prefers to put up with this and drive the more conventional route....

I agree bad drivers are bad drivers, and that they cause problems wherever they are. That is why there is a vote kick option on most servers. When passing slower traffic it is up to the person passing to make the clean pass. If you feel you can't pass safely in a certain section, then don't pass there.

The chicane is a part of the track that makes BL2R what it is. Likewise, with any BLR layout, the corner is what gives the track character. It is like the chicane at Monza. Those kinds of corners compel everyone to want to get the best start for the position advantage, because they can not be taken two abreast. I would agree if the Monza chicane were bypassed that corner would be much safer as it would no longer be a corner. The same goes for BL2R. But the character of the track would be gone.

When taking the proper course though T1 at BL2R it is okay to use the sand tap as runoff in the situation of getting squeezed. This is much safer than trying to hold your line. However, this should never be an excuse for blowing though the corner.

Eh, whatever. For me the most important thing to get from LFS is to have fun. Cutting the chicane on BL2R gives 100% more fun to ALL other people I was talking concerning this, to the people who tried. But really, it is a moot point. Unless BL2R makes it back demo, there's no need to discuss what would be better. And if demo ever sees BL2R again be sure to evade the AirAttack server (and most others, I'm sure). But that is probably unnecessary remark as well, making the whole matter yet more pointless.

I am trying to discuss why any BL2R combo is not popular among the populated servers. Which is because of the different ways people want to take that corner.

Quote from SilverArrows77 :

Damn i wish i hadnt deleted my old "Monday Night Enduros BL2R" vid off youtube now and i cant find my copy of it here ....

I've been hoping you'd stumble across it again. They were fun times.

Quote :

I am trying to discuss why any BL2R combo is not popular among the populated servers.

There is so little rallycross racing outside of BL2 any more that I'm not sure it's possible to guage the popularity of other combinations with much accuracy. What I can say is that before patch X, when BL2R was removed from the demo, it had maintained a high level of interest for a number of years. Certainly our main demo host was full on a daily basis, and a strong community of both demo and licensed racers built up around it.

Interesting what you say about T1 giving the track character, because this would be exactly the same argument that those who enjoyed cutting the track would put forward. It's worth noting that in the lower powered cars cutting the track isn't simply about heading straight for the corner at full speed. There's a specific route and technique that require accuracy, knowledge and practice to get right. Unless you were around in BL2's heyday this is a point that probably can't be appreciated, but perfecting the corner was always part of the tracks charm.

For the more powerful cars the situation is different, and I do think that allowing cutting takes away from the experience.

As EQ says, it really is a moot point. While BL2R will always be regarded as LFS's best rallycross track by a number of us, there just isn't much interest any longer. It needed the demo community to survive, and Patch X just picked it up and stuck it in an almighty chokehold.

Just tried this for first ever time.

As someone who doesn't normally do rallyx, and prefers trying to keep it on the tarmac, it took me a while to understand what you meant be cutting the corner.

I originally thought you meant getting as close to the cones as possible.

Totally different mindset required for rallyx.

I've set one of my servers (Sin'rs) for BL2R, and will leave it like that for a while to see what happens.

However, people who join will be my guinea-pigs for the lapper scripts I make!

bit offtopic: something that really surprises me is low popularity of XFR/UFR class.

Quote from Hyperdrive :

....As EQ says, it really is a moot point. While BL2R will always be regarded as LFS's best rallycross track by a number of us, there just isn't much interest any longer. It needed the demo community to survive, and Patch X just picked it up and stuck it in an almighty chokehold.

I can see that it does require the demo population to get the servers going. Any variety in the demo will gather people who don't have a license since they are limited. Only having two tracks can get really boring. I don't think non-license holders deserve any more though.

Quote from sinanju :

Just tried this for first ever time.

As someone who doesn't normally do rallyx, and prefers trying to keep it on the tarmac, it took me a while to understand what you meant be cutting the corner.

I originally thought you meant getting as close to the cones as possible.

Totally different mindset required for rallyx.

I've set one of my servers (Sin'rs) for BL2R, and will leave it like that for a while to see what happens.

However, people who join will be my guinea-pigs for the lapper scripts I make!

i was wondering if it was based on this thread that i finally got to get some races on this combo ;ppp

thnx man!!!

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

and Yes, any rally track is fun in LX cars.. even though I suck

ANY track is fun in an LX, especially a '6 with a drift setup

Ok, I've run one of my servers on BL2R for a full week, and logged number of people who've completed at least 1 outlap and 1 full lap, and have therefore recorded a lap time.

Discounting myself, average is just over 1 person per day.

I remember racing on that track when Air Attack I think it was about the only server to have people in it that raced clean. Then one day it wasn't there so I ended up going to normal bl rally. Only bad thing is that the populated rally servers all allow crashing so its like dodging moving land mines all through the race.

Quote from drone wolf :

I remember racing on that track when Air Attack I think it was about the only server to have people in it that raced clean. Then one day it wasn't there so I ended up going to normal bl rally. Only bad thing is that the populated rally servers all allow crashing so its like dodging moving land mines all through the race.

Still great fun, if you want to wind down and have a good, fun, laid-back racing then BL rally is your man/track/thingy

Quote from sinanju :

Ok, I've run one of my servers on BL2R for a full week, and logged number of people who've completed at least 1 outlap and 1 full lap, and have therefore recorded a lap time.

Discounting myself, average is just over 1 person per day.

I was on server for a while yesterday trying (and failing) to improve some of my times. No one joined.

Checked !top times, and no additional times have been recorded, so doesn't look like anyone's done 2 complete laps on server in last few days.

Therefore, I can only conclude that it's not a very popular combo, or the people who like that combo, have found something else meantime.

I've now changed combo to something else (FE2R) for me to put in some timed laps for others to aim for, so for me the experiment is over.

Ahhh thats a shame, i remember when I first got lfs and was unused to the simulation aspect (having only really played arcade games such as Need for Speed) BL rally was the first track I was ever really good at, thrashing my rivals in my XRG, but that was ages ago and I miss it....

Quote from SilverArrows77 :

20th Dec 2009 is ages ago??

In dog years...

Quote from sinanju :

I was on server for a while yesterday trying (and failing) to improve some of my times. No one joined.

Checked !top times, and no additional times have been recorded, so doesn't look like anyone's done 2 complete laps on server in last few days.

Therefore, I can only conclude that it's not a very popular combo, or the people who like that combo, have found something else meantime.

I've now changed combo to something else (FE2R) for me to put in some timed laps for others to aim for, so for me the experiment is over.

I wouldn't say it's due to BL2R being unpopular, I suspect you'd have seen similar results whatever rallycross track you'd gone with. Outside of the demo, the community interest in rally just isn't particularly apparent. For an unestablished host to pop up and have drivers connecting, it would take nothing short of a miracle right now.

This is one of the reasons that a few of us would like BL2R to make a return to the demo. Although limited to XFG and XRG, it would mean licensed racers could be guaranteed a decent sized grid without having to constantly do laps at BL2. And hopefully by bolstering the demo, and strengthening rallycross as a whole, the S2 side of things could see some rejuvenation.

I put BL2R back on one of my servers again, and just for a laugh, I set time with all 20 of the available cars.

Seems people want to beat your time, no matter what the car / track combo, and the top 20 has a very non standard rallyx car listed a few times!

(Probably helps that it has grooved tyres).