i think the cars should all originally have rev limiter's built into them - i know of this in reality as i go to drifts, autotests, rallies and all different things and when hitting high revs any car hits the limiter, even my micra can!!! (equivalent to xrg)

Quote from Bandit77 :

Now THAT's a pretty important detail. So your 1.3 wasn't fully optimized and therefore didn't have the characteristic of a fully optimized or at least consistent, sporty small engine.

Well, we could have had 150hp, but it would have taken a VERY skilled driver to make use of it. At clubman level there is more time to be found in drivability than in headline power figures.

Your point was that 1.3s shouldn't produce much power I believe. They can and do.

Quote from Bandit77 :

I don't think that a 1.3 would spill out 115 hp at a certain number of revs, still have 1000 more to go until the red line and have the ideal shift-point before.

Easy. We had 130hp at 6500. If you think our 7500 self-imposed rev limit was too high (it wasn't), then let's say 7000 is more 'sensible'. With a slightly milder cam, or a tweak to the induction/exhaust system it would be EASILY possible to get 115hp at 6000rpm, probably even lower. The engine would be even less peaky, and optimum gear change points would be around 6600rpm as a guess with our gearing.

Quote from Bandit77 :

ideal shift-point would typically be AFTER the red line, mostly because power'd peak just a tad before the red line.

Not necessarily.

So, as I said before, don't make claims that you can't back up.

so then you could trade ideal shiftpoint and best acceleration against endurance... and set your limiter accordingly, maybe with the option to disable it completely during race.

as for the limiter's behavior itself: I don't care too much, as I don't want to hit it anyway. newer cars' limiters are very smooth though.[/quote]

Quote from Daviticus :

Just to comment on the "realism" of the current limiter ...

My '97 VW Jetta VR6 has a soft-limiter almost identical to LFS' at 6500revs. Also, several CA18DET-equipped Nissans I've driven have had such a limiter, albeit with a bit more POP in the pipes from running stupid-rich.

I think what most people are looking for in LFS is a forceful ignition-cut style limiter. While it's common and widely-used in the standalone-engine-management world, it's not common in standard-ECU-equipped road cars [they use a fuel-cut limiter].

Just food for thought.

The limiter you speak of in the VR6 and Nissan are similar to the lfs limiter but, they do not just stay exactly on the limit and stay there with no change in revs what so ever, no matter what the conditions. These are two cars I have tried so I know this from experience.
I know the limiter in lfs is probably the perfect limiter for a racing car but most road cars do not have this.

Quote from Tim_J_23 :

Heya!
The one that turns off the ignition pretty much sounds like this:

Wraaaabababababa BANG babababa BANG The BANG is misfire which often is a cause by the revv limiter since it turns off the ignition on some cylinders.

Is this why a lot of racing cars misfire as they approach corners? Because the rev limiter cuts in as they change down a gear?

As i've heard its just the big drop/raise(?) in RPM, not any guarantee though.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Is this why a lot of racing cars misfire as they approach corners? Because the rev limiter cuts in as they change down a gear?

Nope, that's because of the heel/toe teqniuqe if I'm not mistaking.

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Is this why a lot of racing cars misfire as they approach corners? Because the rev limiter cuts in as they change down a gear?

No that is after fire caused by unburnt fuel getting into the exhaust and igniting, and is often accompanied by a visual display of flames. If the rev limiter was hit in the process of a downshift then the shift would have been far too early and would only audibly engage the limiter during the throttle blip, which is only momentary.

Ah, k

How come unburt fuel gets into the exhaust in the first place?

Race engines run a lot of overlap (inlet and exhaust valves open at the same time near top dead centre on the inlet/exhaust strokes), and tend to maintain fuelling on the overrun (off the gas) to keep exhaust gas temperatures and valve/cylinder temperatures under control (and because it improves pick-up a bit too). The fuel can go straight in the inlet valve and straight out of the exhaust valve, where the temperatures can be enough to ignite the fuel and cause pops and flames.

Ideally you don't really want it, if only because the shock waves aren't great for exhaust longevity, but some people reckon the gains are worth the costs. I tend towards no popping and coughing if I can help it, but sometimes throttle response degrades too far (in a track environment - you'd never EVER notice it on the roads) to get rid of it completely.

Quote from eight6er :

The limiter you speak of in the VR6 and Nissan are similar to the lfs limiter but, they do not just stay exactly on the limit and stay there with no change in revs what so ever, no matter what the conditions. These are two cars I have tried so I know this from experience.
I know the limiter in lfs is probably the perfect limiter for a racing car but most road cars do not have this.

http://s64.photobucket.com/alb ... &current=101_0142.flv

Listen closely when I tag the limiter in 1st gear. It's just for a slight moment, before I shift. Burbles right off 6500. It's also audibly noticeable by the change in engine tone [it becomes rough in quick succession, not smooth]. Never once has this car dipped-then-revved while hitting the limiter, it's always a smooth 6500 revs, no more, no less.

Now, go into LFS and redline the XRT, for example. Sounds pretty close to identical, to me. Maybe it's my driving habits at the limiter that create this difference in opinion [trust me, I spend a LOT of time on the limiter, 3rd gear is too tall for some of the twisty roads I tackle and 2nd is just too short ].

Quote from Crashgate3 :

Is this why a lot of racing cars misfire as they approach corners? Because the rev limiter cuts in as they change down a gear?

Because they're highly tuned and run unrestrictive exhaust systems.

Myself, I'd like to see flames out of the exhaust and random pops and bangs on gear changes and when braking. Makes for more atmosphere and realism.

actually i would like a proper rev limiter too, it gives these cars more realistic feeling, i don't even think they sound now that they have a rev limiter at all!
it's like: wrooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Sounds like that, it's not realistic at all.
it should go like wroooootoootootootoootootototootootootootootootoo.
(funny)
And in racing cars like xrr and so one would have a racing limiter, like real fast misfiring sound, wrototototototototototototototototototo...

About those rev limiters... cars have different type of limiters.. lfs has many different cars... so why should not limiter be different between different cars in LFS...
just my 5cents

Quote from sampax :

actually i would like a proper rev limiter too, it gives these cars more realistic feeling, i don't even think they sound now that they have a rev limiter at all!
it's like: wrooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Sounds like that, it's not realistic at all.
it should go like wroooootoootootootoootootototootootootootootootoo.
(funny)
And in racing cars like xrr and so one would have a racing limiter, like real fast misfiring sound, wrototototototototototototototototototo...

Yes or like N AGNH GAWD GAWG DGBANW BNBGD GA while PAPAPAPAPAPAPAPPAPAPAPNG sounds good too.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=44137&page=7



-rev limiter mod

Quote from Mikey Monkfish :

Because they're highly tuned and run unrestrictive exhaust systems.

Myself, I'd like to see flames out of the exhaust and random pops and bangs on gear changes and when braking. Makes for more atmosphere and realism.

Mini Coopers (the new ones) actually adjust their engine timing when you're off the throttle above 2500 RPM, and the same effect is achieved. You can hear it quite clearly in this video - I blew my exhaust apart taking the fabled Dragon too hard, and the "burbles" sound like gunshots :P
http://www.facebook.com/v/163194687361

Mini Coopers also have a newer type of rev limiter, similar to what the new Fiat Punto has - it's referred to as a "soft" limiter. BMW employed this on the MINI because it has an electronic throttle, and it's much more forgiving when shifting at the limit. Example: the prequel to the video above. You'll hear the MINI hit redline several times in this video...
http://www.facebook.com/v/163005357361

I think the entire point of this topic was to request an annoying limiter like that noisy Bee*R one, can we just let the LFS cars be LFS cars? They have the perfect limiter, if you're going through a corner sideways ideally you shouldn't even need to be hitting your redline.

+1 to a proper rev limiter. I don't really like the current one much, it just sounds like it doesn't have a rev limited just at lower revs. Burnouts and drifts would sound so much rice-ier better with rev limiter sounds.

No, not better. Just more annoying. :P

Bump!

+1 to new rev limiter types. The "BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" type is just too diesel like for cars which apparently are petrol powered.

Ignition cut type rev limiters are not in standard cars, but they should be in the R cars. (FZR, XRR, FXR)

And the typical fuel cut limiters should be in normal vehicles...


Here`s a good example of the fuel cut type limiter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wrq2c4OA9jQ


Ignition cut limiter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81GPj-oOoY0

Just get the "Universal Rev bouncer"
It works awesomely for that type of fuel cut limiter

For the ignition cut limiters, maybe LFS should get backfires first. Would be a good first step.