Quote from Intrepid :

Rotax? No wonder you prefer the car stuff. Even I'd admit those things are lame Nowt special about the FR125 for sure. I can barely bring myself to call a Rotax MAX a kart

me? Take your pick! Setting up something for the summer with Formula A but like the look of some KZ stuff if I can get the chance this year,

Look mate, we just had an argument on karts and race cars, im not going argue now kart v kart!!! Another time though we can fight about it.

Quote from aoun :

Look mate, we just had an argument on karts and race cars, im not going argue now kart v kart!!! Another time though we can fight about it.

There is no argument. Just stating my understanding that most people would prefer a race car over a Rotax MAX... I would as well!

This debate is getting old. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but come on you don't have to force it on people. At least when Tristsan does it, he's correct.

Quote from Falcon140 :

At least when Tristsan does it, he's correct.

Not always

i woke up to a whole page of long posts to read through

anyways, i have basically decided from this that i will try to the best of my ability to get into karts, then when im 16, i will take it from there on where i want to try to go.

now to find a track

Quote from tristancliffe :

Or take up car racing, which doesn't need to be defended

Nevermind the fact that most of society in America views racing drivers as lunatic freeloader playboys with no personality who don't live in the real world.

Me, I always get a positive response to karting when I say "I race 100 MPH karts". You need to get the reference in there right away that they're not 4 stroke carnival karts.

Anyway, Logitek, the reason why karts are good is simply to get perspective. It behooves every young driver to drive as varied a selection of cars as he can. A developing Formula driver can learn a thing or two driving GT cars. A GT driver can learn something by driving touring cars. Et cetera. So as long as you can afford it, try to do test days in cars you might drive after karts. This year I'm making the jump to cars, and after I get my race license from Skip Barber I'll be driving a number of different cars to find which one I should go for next, and to get the experience.

And you still haven't told us where you want to end up! (unless you did, and I'm an idiot)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Karting and racing will cost you money. You won't make a career out of it, and you should go into it expecting to unless you are a) very rich and b) very young.

So skip the karting stage and go straight into cars - they are more fun (in my opinion), are much more complex (and hence you'll learn more as an engineer), and not much more expensive. You will also not have to explain to everyone that your hobby is racing 8 year olds, which could be a bit embarrassing.

If you were 8, had a lot of money, and wanted to become an F1 champion then I'd give you different advice - i.e. do not skip the karting stage. But you aren't, so why bother wasting lots of money in karts when you want to play in cars.

In America, he's got a lot more time than if he wanted to get to F1. You can still transition to IndyCar in your late twenties, and for tintops the sky is really the limit. I might not get to ALMS till I'm 30 (but I'll probably get there before then if my career succeeds).

When I started at 18, I took 2 years in karting. Might take a 3rd "half year" in karting as well, while I test and transition to cars. If I had jumped straight into cars, I would've needed those 2 years or more to develop my skills anyway, and I would have spent a ton more money doing so. Of course, I had a team of professional coaches helping me. So take from that what you will.

i want to end up racing road cars, around non-oval tracks, maybe GTR cars in the end, but my goal now is to become decent on track in a regular car like maybe what we would compare to the xrt, or fz5.

anyone want to recomend indoor tracks or outdoor tracks :hide:

You don't know the tracks near your home?

Quote from tiagolapa :

You don't know the tracks near your home?

Why is it hard to believe that someone with no previous experience doesn't know the tracks near their home?

@ logitekg25: I doubt that many of us will be able to find tracks near you better than you yourself. I suspect that some time with a phonebook and google will turn up a few options, and once you find one or two, ask for more recommendations from drivers. The drivers will know the good tracks in the area, and have recommendations for a good class for you to begin in, based on what is raced at what tracks.

local drivers are usually very knowledgeable about the local scene, as opposed to us who can only give general advice, because we live so far away. They will know where legends are raced and where karts are raced.

you can still get very good advice from people on the forum, but I would get yourself involved in the local scene at some level asap... go to an indoor karting track (as it's winter) and ask around.

Quote from logitekg25 :

i want to end up racing road cars, around non-oval tracks, maybe GTR cars in the end, but my goal now is to become decent on track in a regular car like maybe what we would compare to the xrt, or fz5.

anyone want to recomend indoor tracks or outdoor tracks :hide:

Here ya are: http://www.na-motorsports.com/Tracks/ Indoor, outdoor, even some inbetween doors.

If ya wanna race tin tops on road courses (professionally), then your two options are Grand Am (Rolex or Sportscar Challenge) and American Le Mans, usually Grand Am leads to ALMS (Grand Am was constructed with cheapness in mind, and an ST class ride in Sportscars is only about 100 grand per year). GT cars is a good goal, because other than Stock Cars, America does it really well.

wow, that's a great site. I'll have use of that myself, as I've moved recently

Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

Why is it hard to believe that someone with no previous experience doesn't know the tracks near their home?

@ logitekg25: I doubt that many of us will be able to find tracks near you better than you yourself. (...)

Exactly.. I dont even care for a 'carrer' in karting and I know several tracks around here, and in my home town.

i wasnt asking for someone to look up tracks around me, i was looking for if i should stick mainly to indoor or outdoor, indoor for winter obviously, but summer is indoor still adequite? :dunce:

Quote from logitekg25 :

i wasnt asking for someone to look up tracks around me, i was looking for if i should stick mainly to indoor or outdoor, indoor for winter obviously, but summer is indoor still adequite? :dunce:

Indoor karting is a world away from the owner-driver stuff we're talking about. It's good for a lark about with some mates but nothing more. As I suggested earlier check out ekartingnews.com and karting1.com forums for more specific local advice

i bookmarke4d that site :hide:

When you drive in the winter outdoors, you really get the feel of how a kart handles when there is almost 0 grip. Like when all the rubber is washed away by the rain a day before you arrive. That's when you learn how to drive. A real driver can perform in any condition!

Quote from Vinnylegends :

When you drive in the winter outdoors, you really get the feel of how a kart handles when there is almost 0 grip. Like when all the rubber is washed away by the rain a day before you arrive. That's when you learn how to drive. A real driver can perform in any condition!

Absolutely. Learning to drive in the rain should be on the top priorities for any driver, especially an American. We don't get as much rain out here, and when we do, it seems like most of the drivers have very little experience in it. So the sooner you learn rain and low grip driving the better.

My first time in the wet was in the middle of last year and I turned out half a second faster than anyone else, and that was only because I'd started reading about rain driving so much.

My used shifter kart (engine+chassis) was $3000. Personally, I would not pay any more than that. A used kart is NOT in good condition no matter what the seller says. For starting out, I would not buy a new chassis or engine. Everything is outdated every season, so forking out $10,000 starting out is not advised. Gear can total (cheapest) about $610. Cheap motorcycle gloves: ~$20, wrestling shoes ~$60, cheap suit ~$330, Helmet ~$200 (no nomex required, it is expensive stuff). Kart stand recommended ~$??? depends on how much you are willing to spend.

Total ~$3610± (keep track of all expenses)

<----------- that is a picture of my budget setup on one of my first few practices

Note: Don't go cheap on the helmet!!! Must be snell approved!! When choosing a chassis, pick one that is common for your local club. It will be easier to get help from other kart racers. Do not buy separate engine and chassis unless you know what you are buying! Stick withing 3 years of the current year when buying a chassis or engine.

Recurring costs will have to be calculated every session. They include but are not limited to:

fuel & premix oil (2-stroke), tires, spare cables (gas, brake, etc.), spare spark plugs, engine rebuilds ("recommended" every 20 hours of kart use. LOG YOUR HOURS!), lengths of chain, sprockets, axles, wheel hubs, etc., and anything else I have missed.

Advice for tires: At your local kart shop they will be disposing of their used Quali/race tires, they are still in good condition. Ask if you can dig them out of the trash. Free tires saves loads of money!!!

Check this place out Acceleration Karting

Hey,

@ Post #1

if you want to start with a Career then you will need to start with Karting. every drive at a padock now the days has got Karting experiance and also needs to have Karting experiance.

the only harder question is what class you want to drive. you can answere this in two ways. what are the local tracks running for Leagues. and what do you want.

Just a little history about me: I started with a 60cc 2 stroke what i borrowed from a friend of mine, after 2 days this was just too slow , i was 12 at that time.

after this my dad disiceded to buy a 100cc 2 stroke, and basicly this is where i really really learned to drive. i had 2 differend chassis, a birel and crg. having this you can really really start to under stand the Kart / engine. the main thing about the engine that you keep on changing the mix ( air / fuel ), in slower corners ( low rpm ) you want an other mix then in the high rpm range...

finaly when i was 14 i got my 125cc rotax max senior. i never drove the junior because at my local tracks they never drove it. the 125cc rotax senior is by far the most fun and speed. its even better for the budget because it never breaks...


anyhow , i hope you understand what i mean

Quote from hotmail :

the 125cc rotax senior is by far the most fun and speed

dudeeee.... ??? most fun and speed? What you taking? I've been very lucky to drive practically every type of kart under the sun and the Rotax MAX ranks way down the bottom. I have more fun on rentals No bottom end power, no top end, and it sounds like a wet fart. I have a kart engine from the 80s which makes the MAX FR125 look pedestrian. I could fully understand TC's position on karting if Rotax MAX was the only class to represent karting, luckily it isn't.

Granted you can't deny it's success, but that's because they don't seize. But other than that it's one of the worst (and MANY agree on this) engines ever to be put on a kart. But let's not argue

Quote from Intrepid :

dudeeee.... ??? most fun and speed? What you taking? I've been very lucky to drive practically every type of kart under the sun and the Rotax MAX ranks way down the bottom. I have more fun on rentals No bottom end power, no top end, and it sounds like a wet fart. I have a kart engine from the 80s which makes the MAX FR125 look pedestrian. I could fully understand TC's position on karting if Rotax MAX was the only class to represent karting, luckily it isn't.

Granted you can't deny it's success, but that's because they don't seize. But other than that it's one of the worst (and MANY agree on this) engines ever to be put on a kart. But let's not argue

Lol ill argue with that, because your over exagerating there bud!

Quote from aoun :

Lol ill argue with that, because your over exagerating there bud!

Not really mate! Just reflecting the views of most drivers that have raced MAX as well as experiencing other forms of karting. The MAX is wildly regarded a a terrible driving experience relative to other kart engines.. The power delivery is offensive. I get offended driving them. As I said I would find it VERY difficult to argue with TC if MAX FR125 was the only motor available on the market... verrryy difficult to argue.

I know that the engine will bog if you slam on the throttle but thats because the carby is way too big for the engine.. hit it smooth and right and it goes smoothly and very well. I wont say its the best, or better then what you told me your running, but i think they are great, and need to be driven very well to avoid this "bad power delivery".

Quote from aoun :

I know that the engine will bog if you slam on the throttle but thats because the carby is way too big for the engine.. hit it smooth and right and it goes smoothly and very well.

I know the details of driving a MAX fast, I've coached people in it who've gone on to winning races. Doesn't stop it being terrible and having junk low end power. I'm in the UK remember. We literally dominate in the world of Rotax. It's still pants.

Quote from Intrepid :

I know the details of driving a MAX fast, I've coached people in it who've gone on to winning races. Doesn't stop it being terrible.. it's just terrible

Explain in detail why its terrible.. prove me wrong (not being rude.. )