+1, I retire from the rest of the season (Didnt really plan to drive the any rounds anyway, but was talked into racing :P)
+1, I retire from the rest of the season (Didnt really plan to drive the any rounds anyway, but was talked into racing :P)
Right, I wasn't going to respond in any way to people complaining about penalties as I didn't want to seem like an argumentative little sod, but something that someone who will go unnamed has just said something that has actually quite angered me and made me think about this. So I'm going to tell you what I think (as a racer, not an admin, I don't admin iTCC before you ask) of the whole situation.
My problem is people comparing penalties from racing IRL to LFS. Now I'm sorry, but racing IRL to LFS regulations wise is and should be totally different. In real life you have a fear factor of damage to your own vehicle, the vehicles of your competitors and damage to yourself and other people. LFS dosen't have personal injuries or property damage that costs money, so else do you deter people from making dangerous moves that would be totally moronic in real life? You penalise. And that has to be heavier penalties than in real life for the simple fact that a slap on the wrist won't stop people wrecking in LFS, because they're not going to get hurt and can just shift+p it off and rejoin the next race.
It is simply the only way of getting people to FEAR the implications of contact. If you look at any real life racing series, ok so people aren't disqualified for their actions but not only can they not continue that race due to the obvious extra damage of the real world, but they are still penalised with points on their licences or points deducted from championship results. Look at the BTCC last season, people were excluded and a bloody lot of points stuck on drivers permenant records. Maybe that's what we need? Permenant records...
You want clean racing? Live with the consequences of your actions, however stupid they may be!
Thats my 2p, don't flame me all at once please big boys!
My problem is people comparing penalties from racing IRL to LFS. Now I'm sorry, but racing IRL to LFS regulations wise is and should be totally different. In real life you have a fear factor of damage to your own vehicle, the vehicles of your competitors and damage to yourself and other people. LFS dosen't have personal injuries or property damage that costs money, so else do you deter people from making dangerous moves that would be totally moronic in real life? You penalise. And that has to be heavier penalties than in real life for the simple fact that a slap on the wrist won't stop people wrecking in LFS, because they're not going to get hurt and can just shift+p it off and rejoin the next race.
It is simply the only way of getting people to FEAR the implications of contact. If you look at any real life racing series, ok so people aren't disqualified for their actions but not only can they not continue that race due to the obvious extra damage of the real world, but they are still penalised with points on their licences or points deducted from championship results. Look at the BTCC last season, people were excluded and a bloody lot of points stuck on drivers permenant records. Maybe that's what we need? Permenant records...
You want clean racing? Live with the consequences of your actions, however stupid they may be!
Thats my 2p, don't flame me all at once please big boys!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai-KSCSxrtw Watch this from 4:35 to 4:45 (Its from the biggest race in Formula Basic last year. I was crashed out in practise, so my car was totally broken and not repair-able (and that dude didnt even get a warning for crashing me out hard as hell.), so I was only watching the final.)
Do you know what the yellow car got?
He got some damage, so he couldnt continue 10 laps after. If not, he would have won.
Do you know why?
Because he crashed out the dude who was leading.
Do you know what the dude who got crashed out (Thomas) did?
He protested him.
Do you know what happend?
He was told to get his money back, and dont protest him by the admins, and they gave the dude a warning.
I just think the penalties at LFS is going too far. I would never been excluded from IRL racing, unless Im drunk or is driving at the street. Im free to crash out whoever I want to, and just get a warning. If I do it twice a race, I might get DQ, but that doenst happend that often. With that said, I never crash IRL though, but there are other dudes crashing.
Dont get me wrong
Its good that they penalize drivers in LFS to stop crashing.
But NDR does it too many times, too harsh. As far as I know, NDR wants LFS to be as realistic as possible, so make the penalties more realistic too then.
Yeah, in different from IRL racing, you should penalize drivers in LFS. But not way too harsh ffs. Take a cart (or a car, or even a formula car), drive a race, and see how many who will try to drive through you... Yeah, you wont be able to count it, because its too many. Still, almost none gets a penalty unless they really do something really shit. In LFS, you can instead actually penalize, but no need to penalize 10 times harsher than you actually should.
Im never afraid when I crash IRL. And if Im really mad at someone, I just hit his ass so he goes wide and then pass him. Doesnt work that good in Formula Basic, as you usualy lose your nose. I was so freaking mad a f*cking driver last year, so I just drove straight into his ass. My engine was already ****ed, so I didnt really care as I had to pit anyway :P
I have been driving lots of motorport, from go-carts to formula renault. Next year or the year after, Im hopefully gonna drive an endurance series in Scandinavia, if I dont get into VLN (money :P). I have never been DQ'd from a single race IRL. Actually, I have NEVER got a warning either.
From what I have seen in MoE, it seems quite good there. But in the NDR leagues, it seems to be too harsh penalties lots of times, imo. and no, Im not just talking about my penalties, Im talking about penalties I've seen other drivers got, which I just havent been able to understand.
I mostly agree with you
what the hell?
you just formulated my thoughts on it wilko 
Tommy, we drive in LFS for fun, I'm sure we all agree on that. So if we implement your penalty system (basically IHR but with added nothingness) you would be happy with being wrecked at every corner?
Pha, I think not.
And I dont race IRL for fun? oh wait, I do!
They should be more harsh IRL than on LFS, its the opposite atm. If you crash someone IRL, the driver you crashed can get injured and have to pay a looooot of money to repair his car. "Thats his problem", you say.
In LFS, you cant hurt anyone, and no one have to pay to repair their car, because they can as you nicely said, shift+p. It's one race over, but wait some minutes/weeks and there's another race you can participate at. YOU SHOULD be harsh at people crashing on purpose! INDEED. Get rid of them. They are the one who will wont care if they get a penalty. But dont punish incidents so god damn hard. If you crash someone intentional, yeah, sure, a penalty should be applied, but no need to exclude the person for X months, if he didnt crash out everyone, and as long as it wasnt intentional.
I wouldn't go that far. It's always depending on where you are and what you're driving. So, let's see... In DTM I've seen cars getting DTs or holding penalties for bumping the car in front a bit without causing any major dammage or even a swich in the position ranking. Actions where you wouldn't even launch a protest in other serieses. I mean it hasn't been that bad last season but the previous seasons were that way, I remember. I know from second hand experience that even in telivised (but not so prestigious serieses) the race administrations seem to sleep. A friend of my dad broke his Clavicle after he got chrashed out by someone else. The guy just divebombed into him entering the S/F at Hockenheim, but nothing happened, not even a warning.
That are basically the two extremas I know.
We might be nitpicking but I see our decisions standing between the extremas.
I'm sorry, but in my entire online and IRL career, I have never seen such an appauling attitude towards motorsport. If you're mad at someone, you'll just bat them off no questions asked? You have more money than sense my friend.
We can all add videos to support our points, for example in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QH4uGJfzX0 the blue car (Nash) was excluded from the results and had 4 penalty points added to his licence (12 in a 12 month period gets your racing licence suspended for 3 months).
You are right
Some of the stuff i read in there was ridiculous.
You are wrong, **** off.
Paint doesnt cost me a shit, Chris. 
Go to Norway and try it out :P Ofc I dont do that often. But if the driver pass me unfair, he wont see me being a pussy :P
Go to Norway and try it out :P Ofc I dont do that often. But if the driver pass me unfair, he wont see me being a pussy :PNeither does being a Gentleman on track.......
Manners are like fresh air, it's free, and they make everyone feel a bloody lot better!
Lol, you guys take things way too serious. And before you go on saying im talking about penalties and racing hard blah blah, don't bother, because I am not even talking about that.
30 restricted cars with slicks + fast tracks that are difficult to pass on + 30 impatient drivers + admins that say contact is ok just don't go too far = The new iTCC = No fun anymore.
Throughout last season there was some rough racing, but people got that behind them after the first couple races, and a few light penalties flew. This year = harsh penalties with no improvements from drivers. Funny no?
30 restricted cars with slicks + fast tracks that are difficult to pass on + 30 impatient drivers + admins that say contact is ok just don't go too far = The new iTCC = No fun anymore.
Throughout last season there was some rough racing, but people got that behind them after the first couple races, and a few light penalties flew. This year = harsh penalties with no improvements from drivers. Funny no?
What he said.
And if you guys hate me now, Its my opinion and Im free to state my opinion, Im just pissed off after the worst day in my entire life.
And if you guys hate me now, Its my opinion and Im free to state my opinion, Im just pissed off after the worst day in my entire life.
Who the F cares now anyways, im out and tommy is out, bam your outlawed people is gone give me an infraction or whatever, but new iTCC stinks, and i dont wanna throw mud, but we know what the changes has been so you who know you are new in the season i.e admining, give yourselves a big hand.
What a freakshow this has become!
What a freakshow this has become!
And also one thing. I was excluded from two rounds for doing donuts on the grass. No one protested it, no one had to change line (no one did), no one had to lift or brake (no one did). I was never any danger. Then, you guys just take the banhammer and ban me. Seriously... WTF is the point? This is what I mean with too harsh penalty for not doing a shit. Its not needed at all, and its just really silly by you, Deko, and NDR. Its not needed. If I had hit anyone, or made anyone change line, or at least got protested... then, yeah, fine... But otherwise, whats the point, really?
If I hadnt appealed it, I would been banned from all NDR events for 2 months.
Now, who agree on this? Did I deserve this exclusion, or not? I want your opinion (not NDR's or anyone related to NDR.). Thanks.
If I hadnt appealed it, I would been banned from all NDR events for 2 months.
Now, who agree on this? Did I deserve this exclusion, or not? I want your opinion (not NDR's or anyone related to NDR.). Thanks.
If you must know the one that wanted you DQ'd was good 'old' admin Joe K, not Deko, not Boothy not 'old' NDR. He said immediately that you were acting like a twat and that he didn't want you to get away with it. So please, don't think that the 'old' admins (insulting to Joe really) are in any way less involved in your ban.
Im sorry if that was an offence to Deko, but Deko is the head in NDR as far as I know, and thats why I got his name there. I apologize.
What I said still stands.
What I said still stands.
I'm sad to read this Tommy. I have never seen you as a brat, but your actions lately for sure looks as something happened to you.
If I was able to give you some advice I should say to you to calm down. I have no clue weather your penalties where fair or not, but I do have confidence in NDR's way of adming their leagues.
Please just get over it (bryt ihop och kom igen), take your penalties come back and show all others the real Tommy.
The reading now is pathetic. Asking for support against the admins??!!! ffs .... come on!!
If I was able to give you some advice I should say to you to calm down. I have no clue weather your penalties where fair or not, but I do have confidence in NDR's way of adming their leagues.
Please just get over it (bryt ihop och kom igen), take your penalties come back and show all others the real Tommy.
The reading now is pathetic. Asking for support against the admins??!!! ffs .... come on!!
Im not asking for support against the admins, Im asking people if THEY do think the penalty was fair or not. As I feel its not nessecary at all.
You will see me racing, better than before, dont worry.
I have been sitting with my expressions inside me for a month now. I finally had balls to state what I feel.
You will see me racing, better than before, dont worry.
I have been sitting with my expressions inside me for a month now. I finally had balls to state what I feel.
Yawn.
Just want to mix myself in to this a bit
. Because i had this same discussion before on SR forums.IRL you'll get pushed around alot. TBH if someone pushes me a little i push him a little back. Thats just normal in the sport. Otherwise you'll always be the one who get's pushed around.
Same in LFS, like on IHR server, someguy was holding me up alot and always slamming the door etc. Pushing a bit. Comming up to t1 i just let my car lean a little to his so i can pass. "REVENGE WRECKING" is what you get then. Thats just silly.
But this is another story then whats happening in ITCC. Some crazy shit going on there. A little pushing now and then is ok. But just being plain stupid is something else
+1
+100000
Listen to wise words. Otherwise this league will end in a deep dark hole.
Complaints Department - Open 24/7/365
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