NO!

I'm a bit sick of people complaining because I don't leave them enough room to pass me. I'm RACING you, i'm not in the game of LEAVING you any room. If there IS room to pass, then make the pass. Do I try and minimise the space around my car when you are behind me trying to get past? Hell yes... I race by these rules, feel free to debate.

• If you are behind me, I will close my racing line tighter to reduce the space between me and the line which I think you want to pass me. This may slow us both down, but it keeps me ahead.
  
• I WON'T try and hit you, I am actively trying to avoid hitting you because that will impede my race. However I will close this space safely and BEFORE you occupy it.
  
• If you continue to drive into a space which no longer exists, for example putting your car into a position where you have no other option due to lack of grip or inability to slow down, to hit me. That is NOT my fault.
  
• I won't swerve all over the racing line but I will make one decisive action, clear of your car, to indicate my intent to protect my line.
  
• I will be aggressive. I will not give you plenty of room to slide up alongside and pass me. But I will also be predictable...
  
• Force me to make an error without crashing us both out of the race. It is totally possible to second guess my line and without smashing into me, force me deep into a corner and therefore take a wider line.
  
• I will do everything I can to avoid you AND continue to race. I have to make sensible judgment to maintain this. If we are side by side going into a corner, I have to give way if you are AHEAD or have LEAD TRACK POSITION, if not, I will turn into that corner as safely as I can whilst maintaining as much race speed as possible. I expect you to do the same...
  
• The odd nudge, bump and scraping of doors is for me, totally acceptable. This happens in real life and is often worse on LFS due to network lag and poor collision detection. So I expect some contact and you should to.
  

So NO people, I won't be giving you masses of room to get past me, even if you are faster. Especially if you are faster, I am going drive defensively as much as possible to maintain my current race position... If you want to get past, here is a novel idea...

RACE ME

I think the best response I could provide to yourself and the people you race with is to view section 1.4 the Rules of Clean Racing in the lfsmanual.

http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/R ... f_Clean_Racing#Overtaking

/close thread.

Barge passing... awesome, that's my response for future on track debate

+1

Agree with everything you say Yeager, great post!

People say I am aggressive, I say YES I am. Am I a dirty driver, no way. No offence to other drivers, but the only people complaining are usually pretty shit, and have no racecraft. Racing is about putting your car in the worst possible place for your opponent, losing him time. Better drivers than me have no problem passing me, drivers to my standard can race with me side by side through chicanes and for laps on end, whereby mistakes decide the outcome. People with racecraft and slower than me can hold me up for laps on end, but tough on me

People faster than me, but with no racecraft, take me out. People slower than me with no racecraft crash me out aswell. This is the normal thing for me in most public servers. /end rant

Agree with what's said in this topic. There of course are some limits, but in "healthy" means it's good.

Good post, In an an Ideal world with no lag, and no plonkers I would Agree.But Its not so I leave room until I know I don't have to.
Contact with others is a grey area, open to abuse so I avoid it like the plague.You can let another driver pass you only to repass them where it really counts.

I wish the races were longer in LFS, 30 minute races would help people develop tactics, see where the other guy is slower and exploit it...etc.

But It seems everyone wants instant gratification these days.

Quote from JohnPenn :

Good post, In an an Ideal world with no lag, and no plonkers I would Agree.But Its not so I leave room until I know I don't have to.
Contact with others is a grey area, open to abuse so I avoid it like the plague.You can let another driver pass you only to repass them where it really counts.

I wish the races were longer in LFS, 30 minute races would help people develop tactics, see where the other guy is slower and exploit it...etc.

But It seems everyone wants instant gratification these days.

Good points. I would love longer races, BUT I only get to race in my lunch for 30 mins, maybe an hour. So I would miss out on a lot of races if they were that long.

We have a fair few spare servers, thanks to 500 servers, so if you can come up with an idea, we would be more than happy to try it

Quote from yeager :

[...]
RACE ME

I SHALL!

Well, maybe, sometime...

races around 30 minutes are great

we are having these kind of races in our private "league" with some friends (the ones from the "real" world ), we are having a 100km race first and then a 40km with reversed starting order (works fine for 7 cars on the grid)

we are generally rubbish, but a race around 30 minutes is something completly different than a 5-lap Aston Club public shoot-out

you start thinking of your tires, you start assesing others weak and strong points, you start calculating how much risk to take in order to go faster or safer, and you deffinately don't want to end you race in the gravel after a 30 minutes fight

so if you are having some spare servers set one up for races around 100km, maybe some drivers will like it too?

and of course +1 to the first post, just like they say: leave the space for 101% width of the opponents car, not less, not more

@yeager & JohnPenn

Totally agree. +1. I have actively raced lately with your attitude yeager, just to see how drivers react. Some respond really well and find it very amusing to face an overtaking challenge. These are the drivers you soon get to know very well and end up racing with more frequently.

On the other hand, there are some that have a "make way" attitude as soon as they close in on your rear bumper. Its really sad because they loose one of the most entertaining moments of LFS - the overtaking process. As in real life, it works so fantastically well in LFS to build up an overtaking. When you discover that you are faster than the car in front. All you have to do is to start planning how and when to overtake. One part of that process is to find the opponents weak spots/curves. And, at the same time defend your position from ppl behind.

As it is now with public servers I do let drivers pass relatively easy sometimes just to avoid being involved in a slow-down incident. It shouldnt be like that, but it is. There is certainly a degree of LFS/racing maturity getting mixed up in most public races.

It's just great to hear these kind of thoughts because it explains why, sometimes, we have such great moments in LFS online.

One thing to, race lenght does not allways means cleaner racing. The T1 idiots will still wreck you, no matter if it stands 1 or 10000 laps left.

But longer races does seem to attract other people than the normal asshats, so overall it helps.. just wanted to point out that often it does not help

Quote from The Very End :

One thing to, race lenght does not allways means cleaner racing. The T1 idiots will still wreck you, no matter if it stands 1 or 10000 laps left.

But longer races does seem to attract other people than the normal asshats, so overall it helps.. just wanted to point out that often it does not help

well, we are having a comfort to run in series so we apply penalties voted after the race, that makes our racing quite clean, rubbish but clean

but I think that you are right, even on a public server, longer races would attract drivers who want to spent these 30 minutes on the track to build up their moves and feel the taste of winning, the others will simply be bored and go away

+1 for yeager and Jason.

I am aggresive too, thats why race commentators hate me.

Make room! Leave space!

Quote from yeager :

NO!

+1 That's I call real racing, of course I love to be a gentleman in race, but I would not leave space so easily tho

+999999999999999999999999999999 for this thread.

you wern't stuffing up every second corner were you? or changing your line through corners every lap? i give people a fair while and be patient but when they constantly stuff up and then cut back onto the line i eventually make a move regardless of if they end up in a wall or not. then they go and cry about how i didn't yield to their bad driving. 2 sides to everything

Quote from lEl E Talon :

you wern't stuffing up every second corner were you? or changing your line through corners every lap? i give people a fair while and be patient but when they constantly stuff up and then cut back onto the line i eventually make a move regardless of if they end up in a wall or not. then they go and cry about how i didn't yield to their bad driving. 2 sides to everything

Not usually, i've been racing a lot on the IHR servers and sometimes i'm in the FXR on a track i've not driven in it before. This means i'm not at full race speed for a few laps. Sometimes I may have race damage from another incident or my tyres might be wildly over heated. In all these instances I might well be off the pace and my line may vary as I struggle for grip and manage suspension damage.

Irregardless of any of the above, if you were trying to overtake and lost patience because I was doing a good job of holding you up whilst trying to keep the car on the track with badly worn tyres... I would expect you to pay the same respect to racing as if I was flat out at full race speed.

Making a move out of desperation resulting in someone in the wall is a sure sign of a bad racer.

Quote from yeager :

Not usually, i've been racing a lot on the IHR servers and sometimes i'm in the FXR on a track i've not driven in it before. This means i'm not at full race speed for a few laps. Sometimes I may have race damage from another incident or my tyres might be wildly over heated. In all these instances I might well be off the pace and my line may vary as I struggle for grip and manage suspension damage.

Irregardless of any of the above, if you were trying to overtake and lost patience because I was doing a good job of holding you up whilst trying to keep the car on the track with badly worn tyres... I would expect you to pay the same respect to racing as if I was flat out at full race speed.

Making a move out of desperation resulting in someone in the wall is a sure sign of a bad racer.

Nah see I think you just completely stuffed your whole argument there. If your car is damaged and tyres screwed causing you to be off pace, slide off line, struggle to keep control and all that, you should either pit or keep well off the racing line. That kind of nonsense isn't tolerated in RL so there is no hope of it being tolerated in a game.

Quote from lEl E Talon :

Nah see I think you just completely stuffed your whole argument there. If your car is damaged and tyres screwed causing you to be off pace, slide off line, struggle to keep control and all that, you should either pit or keep well off the racing line. That kind of nonsense isn't tolerated in RL so there is no hope of it being tolerated in a game.

I disagree. If my car was damaged significantly, i'd pit or spectate. But sometimes it's perfectly ok to be at race speed with a slightly bent toe arm which means you need to be more careful under braking and on turn in. I'd say at least 50% of most online public races people get some slight damage from T1 2 or 3. That doesn't mean they all dive to the pits, most race with a little bent bits here and there and that DOES happen in real life as well. (Not the 50% damage! I mean the slightly bent bits...)

The last lap in some races can result in very hot front tyres which mean i'm braking a little ealier and taking a different line to get the weight to the rear and a later apex. None of these situations warrants a pit. I don't struggle to keep control, if I did, i'd be pitting/spectating, but I would be off the race pace.

Quote from lEl E Talon :

be off pace, slide off line, struggle to keep control and all that,

With all that he should be extremely slow coming out of the corners, right? Leave a bit of a gap before coming to the corner leading to the main straight. Catch up to him at the exit and slipstream past on the straight. Or if that isn't enough then pass him braking to the first corner after the main straight.

Quote from yeager :

I disagree. If my car was damaged significantly, i'd pit or spectate.

You're not actually disagreeing with him, read his post again. Note the "if" and the statement that follows. You obviously made this thread to start an argument and it's kinda funny to see you claim to disagree with someone who you agreed with in the next sentence.

significant damage = "off pace, slide off line, struggle to keep control and all that"

To be sure, there is truth in your ideal, race close, race fair, that's what makes it so much fun. Of course you forgot a major condition, that you have to have the ability to race close without causing incident. Watching Rudy in iTCC and you'll see the difference between someone who can (Rudy, obviously) and some who can't (well... those who watch know who I mean). It's not OK for people who have crappy car control to try to race wheel to wheel. It'll end in shift+s every time.

I can't say that I've raced you all that often yeager, so for all I know you may be brilliant behind the wheel. There certainly are some people who need to leave more room than what they do, so you do need to look at the other side of the argument. People claiming "leave more room" have a good chance of being in the right you know

Quote from March Hare :

With all that he should be extremely slow coming out of the corners, right? Leave a bit of a gap before coming to the corner leading to the main straight. Catch up to him at the exit and slipstream past on the straight. Or if that isn't enough then pass him braking to the first corner after the main straight.

Mr Hare, i'm in full agreement. Of course if my car was a total mess and a danger to other racers, i'd be spectating.

Just having hot tyres and a suspension geometry pointing in the wrong direction doesn't mean I have to pit, especially if i'm on the last lap and can hold a faster car up for those last few turns.

Also, using a sense in racing is a sign of good racer, but sometimes crashes happens and it happens to everybody. Not always have time to think a next move, specially if 3 or even more racers are fighting at same position, that is making situation a bit hard and about 10% of these situations usually happens somekind of hits or crashes.

Best for example is starting grid, almost always someone gets hitted or crashed