Quote from thisnameistaken :

But your justification sounds extreme to us. Does someone running away endanger your family? The reason you can't chase people down and shoot them in cold blood is because everybody else in your community who isn't a psycho will want you to go to jail for it.

As far as I'm concerned, you break into my house, and are still on my property, you are fair game, and you might get lead poisoning.

Quote from SidiousX :

And having this right makes the government think twice about overstepping it's authority.

See my previous post. Do you really think some of the population owning weapons has stopped governments from overstepping their authority? Providing support for terrorists, overthrowing governments, involvement in covert wars, illegal surveillance (foreign and domestic), abuses of civil rights etc. If you do then you're pretty naive.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

But your justification sounds extreme to us. Does someone running away endanger your family? The reason you can't chase people down and shoot them in cold blood is because everybody else in your community who isn't a psycho will want you to go to jail for it.

Actually if Terry Martin's trial had been a democratic process he'd have been free, all the opinion polls at the time showed substantial support for him. Only the jury failed him, as even the judge - when the verdict was delivered by the idiots on the jury - was very clear to state that the case should not be used for legal precedent (because even he thought the verdict was wrong) - and Terry Martin served a minimal sentence after his appeal reduced the charge to 5 years for manslaughter, of which he served around 2.

Quote :

Does someone running away endanger your family?

Fred Barras (The 16 year old who Terry Martin killed) was not running away, Mr Martin shot him without warning. In any case, someone running away DOES represent a significant and present danger.

Firstly, how many other assailants are there? Are they regrouping to come back? Are they in full flight away from the scene or are they just leaving the foot of your stairwell (aka Fred Barras) to cause further harm elsewhere on your property? Will they smash your car up on the way out if you dont chase them? Will they break into a neighbours property?

All these things and many more remain unanswered until the critical one...

Has the victim managed to restrain or subdue the aggressor ready for handing over to the police.

If sufficient force to restrain or subdue a potentially armed assailant happens to break a few bones, or even kill them then that's within my moral compass - although far beyond my own personal motivations. At no point have I stated previously in this discussion the extent of injuries i'd cause - I was quite clear that my own personal motivations would be to resolve the situation without injury or personal loss (despite you indirectly labelling me a sociopath), beyond that I really couldn't care, personally - but I have no objection to anyone who wants to go a step further and hand their assailant over to the police. In fact my own apathy toward doing so probably stems from my complete lack of faith in the judicial system.

Quote from Becky Rose :

Actually if Terry Martin's trial had been a democratic process he'd have been free, all the opinion polls at the time showed substantial support for him.

I don't recall there being any massive opinion polling effort relating to his case. Could you show these numbers? I remember The Sun stirring up indignation amongst their borderline special needs readership, but that's about it.

As for the rest of your post I've read it twice and still have no idea what point you were making.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

I don't recall there being any massive opinion polling effort relating to his case. Could you show these numbers? I remember The Sun stirring up indignation amongst their borderline special needs readership, but that's about it.

As for the rest of your post I've read it twice and still have no idea what point you were making.

I've never read The Sun, at the time I had a passing interest in BBC News. As for trying to "win a forum argument" by feigning an inability to understand, I think you lost the moment you tried to win something... Forums are meant for debate, not one-up-manship .

Tony Martin (for anyone playing at home).

Quote from Becky Rose :

As for trying to "win a forum argument" by feigning an inability to understand, I think you lost the moment you tried to win something... Forums are meant for debate, not one-up-manship .

No I genuinely didn't have a ****ing clue what you were talking about. I noticed there was a suspicious amount of "I" and "me" in there for a reply to something I actually said to someone else, then I remembered that you're not happy unless we're talking about you.

Quote from amp88 :

Tony Martin (for anyone playing at home).

That probably counts as trying to "win". Damn. Now we're both ineligible contributors to this thread.

I should've predicted how this thread will go.. Why don't you talk about a totally realistic looking Wii Gun, or the stupid parents?

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I should've predicted how this thread will go.. Why don't you talk about a totally realistic looking Wii Gun, or the stupid parents?

The Wii gun is a mute point imo....the parent however should be done for criminal stupidity. Why leave a loaded gun in full reach of child is just.....beyond stupid.

I can't figure out if the gun was loaded already (bullet loaded in the barell), or there's no need to do it for this gun, or father already did it.. My gun can't fire if you don't "pull the upper part towards yourself" (can someone please give me an english word for that..)

Great job dad. Who on earth leave a god damn semi-automatic gun with a 3 year old child? >.<

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I can't figure out if the gun was loaded already (bullet loaded in the barell), or there's no need to do it for this gun, or father already did it.. My gun can't fire if you don't "pull the upper part towards yourself" (can someone please give me an english word for that..)

I think the term is COCK IT*

*regardless of my thoughts on gun ownership, the fact that you can say cock it in public and not get thrown into jail is a plus point

Yea, i knew that but i thought there's some 'official' term for that..

Dead little girl: speechless. Though if the parent is human, being thrown in jail won't be any worse than how they already feel.

Tony Martin (and related self-defence thread): I think the reason people still talk about this is precisely because it was a grey area, and thus it divides people. For my money, shooting a random pickpocket is wrong. But when particular individuals have targeted your home repeatedly (unless memory fails me about his case), the simple fact that they are running away - this time - has no significance to whether or not you feel you are in danger.