Quote from Kajojek(PL) :

I had demo of RBR but my wheel somehow worked bad on it. It was very loose. I tried to do something in the options but it didnt help, can anybody tell me what to do?

That might be related somehow to the steering lag that exists in RBR? Check this: http://torttu.net/temp/rbr/steering_lag_fix.txt

Quote from ajp71 :

As for cars I'd recommend the Super 1600 cars to start with:

I think I have only one default car left in RBR (but even that's with new model and skin) but for a beginner I would recommend sticking with the default cars for a while. Though I recommend getting new updated models and skins for the default cars, without changing physics because the original models and skins are really low-res and look like crap anyway (good that devs concentrated on physics instead of accurate car models, because modders would do it with better results anyway ).

I'm not any physics expert but I would claim that the default cars handles the best (especially Subaru '03 and Peugeot 206 - not surprising that those are the cars that Richard Burns had driven?). All respect to Rueda & co. (Rueda is "RBR physics expert") but I think most of the mod cars handle too easy, this problem is especially with the historic cars, which is of course logical because RBR physics engine is made for WRC cars and have some real problems with fiddling the physics (mostly engine and differentials, afaik you can't make diffs disappear totally from the physics which would be needed for historic cars). That's why the Group B Mod is currently postponed. Though the Lancia S4 beta handles great with the 450/550 hp physics, probably far from 100% accurate handling but at least it handles totally different than the WRC cars. You can really forget pushing full throttle.

And forgot this: http://torttu.net/temp/rbr/slomo_test.avi (15 MB)

Just a short slomo movie I made sometime ago just to practice editing before I make a longer RBR movie.

Awesome slomo test movie. Really shows how well the physics are interacting!

Quote from tinvek :

last time i checked, my local pc world had it for under £10 and there wqs one with a damaged case for £4

Cheers mate, will look into it

I d/l'd the RBR demo to see what the fuss is about - I get a 'general pixel shader error' before the game ever starts, and crash to desktop.

Nvidea 6600 and plenty of RAM, and haven't run into problems with any other modern game. No idea what to do at this point.

Try starting the startup setup (RBR Startup.exe) and try with minimum gfx options. I'm not really aware of the gfx cars but Nvidia 6600 is pretty new card? So it probably has pixel shader support which RBR requires I think... check the readme from the demo for system requirements if there's a mention about this. And finally try changing the drivers for your gfx car. That might help or then not.

@Flycantbird: Make sure you have the latest DirectX and GFX drivers installed. Normally your card should support pixel shading fine.

Quote from AndroidXP :

@Flycantbird: Make sure you have the latest DirectX and GFX drivers installed. Normally your card should support pixel shading fine.

Thanks,

I reinstalled the demo, and selected 640x480 instead of 800x600.
Not sure at this point which solved the problem, but I got the game started and didn't want to back out once it was going.

Looks like a fun game. Got better after driving the course a few times, but the poor co-driver was definatly getting winded ( an awful lot of 'OOOFS' coming from that side of the car ).

I guess I'll have another racing sim on the hard drive soon - but probably one I'll play now and again - not namie-ing any namies.

If you cant get RBR working then set low detail. This is a bug that happens on some systems.

Also whatever resolution you run AA should be OFF!!!!

Quote from Woz :

Also whatever resolution you run AA should be OFF!!!!

according to the developers aa and af should be set to application controlled, because the game does this in a special way. if you turn aa on in control panel you´ll see vertical lines crossing the streets.

peace mo

I am now the proud owner (borrower) of RBR again. It is installed and I just had a go. I now know why I deleted it, it's AWFUL at the moment. People say it has the best tyre model, but I'd be inclined to say it has NO tyre model at all. I don't even say that about GTR and thats one of the worst arcadey piles of poo since man started to walk and one day created the worlds biggest pile of poo, with a little sign proclaiming it as the biggest.

However, I'm going to give you all the benefit of the doubt, and ask for your help. I don't have much interest in adding cars (until someone makes the only rally car, the Stratos), I'd rather get the most out of the default package at first. I have already downloaded some replacement default setups that are said to be good, but not tried them yet.

Also, can anyone suggest what to do to make the graphics look real (they are terrible too, at 1280*1024 in 32 bit mode).

Finally, how do I make the FFB, which is on high, work, as I can't feel A THING.

At the moment this isn't worth 5p, so I'd appreciate your help. I had a look on BHMS and RSC, but neither site has a 'guide for noobs' like LFS has with the wiki. And having seen what RSC and BHMS's forums are like I don't have a great deal of intention of marching in and asking millions of stupid questions just because the regulars can't be bothered to make their sim accessible.

Quote from tristancliffe :

(until someone makes the only rally car, the Stratos)

Physics only http://www.no-grip.net/index.php?categoryid=2&filenr=708

I think the best thing to do would be to download RBR Start and then download the engine pack so you can setup more accurate sounds for each car.

Funny your not finding RBR easy to pick up, assuming your not just pushing too hard, which is really easy to do start at road speeds and gradually build up speed. Otherwise you may need to tweak settings to get it feeling right for you. RBR felt great to me out the box, where as LFS is terrible with standard settings on both my wheels.

Quote from tristancliffe :

People say it has the best tyre model, but I'd be inclined to say it has NO tyre model at all.

Who says so? Tyre model is pretty basic (no tyre wear) afaik and on tarmac it shows some major problems. But on gravel, RBR beats LFS@rallyx 10-0.

Quote :

Also, can anyone suggest what to do to make the graphics look real (they are terrible too, at 1280*1024 in 32 bit mode).

Huh? Reason for that might be that the default/original car models and skins, which are really horribly low-res. Install some new cars or at least new models and skins for the default cars:

e.g. Subaru '03

Just a new car model and skin:
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/9098 (car model)
http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/10347 (even more updated skin for the model above)
Even that says Subaru 2005, it's compatible with the default Subaru 03 physics. Car model and skin is just 2005 version.

OR you can install Subaru 2006, with new physics and all: http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/12708
When you install it it replaces the original Subaru '03.

Installing method is pretty retarted, just read the readmes carefully...

RBR section in bhmotorsports contains huge amount of great new cars and updates for the default cars, that Subaru above was just a example that you can see the big difference between the graphical quality in modded cars vs. RBR's original models/skins. Because there are lots of crappy and bad mods in BHMS.com too, just tell me if you want any kind of mods and I'll give you links.

And one more thing... the default cockpit view (more likely a windscreen view) is bad, as you've probably noticed already. Using easy Camera Hack utility (http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/8424) you can have any kind of view you want when you can adjust it in the game.

Quote :

Finally, how do I make the FFB, which is on high, work, as I can't feel A THING.

What wheel/drivers? Do you mean it doesn't work at all or just that it sucks? It definately doesn't suck, I myself prefer it more than LFS. But it definately feels a lot different than LFS even that it's (as far as I know) similar steering column system and not effects based.

Anyway do this: http://torttu.net/temp/rbr/steering_lag_fix.txt

Quote from ajp71 :

Physics only http://www.no-grip.net/index.php?categoryid=2&filenr=708

That's really old beta and there's somewhere a model for it too, but I wouldn't recommend installing because it's a forgotten beta and very unfinished.

Quote from deggis :

But on gravel, RBR beats LFS@rallyx 10-0.

Well.... I don't think I would go that far

Quote :

prefer it more than LFS. But it definately feels a lot different than LFS even that it's (as far as I know) similar steering column system and not effects based.

I always found it similar in some ways but a loss less detailed than LFS. To each his own I guess.

As I said before, I enjoy RBR but maybe I should clarify probably not for the same reasons as LFS. RBR is kind of a hoot to play with for fun factor but for a serious driving experience LFS is light years ahead in my books. (big surprize)

1. RBR does beat LFS 10-0 on gravel and snow. Just like LFS beats RBR 10-0 on tarmac.
2. Of course the feeling in a Rally car is a lot different from the feel of non-assisted steering wheel that is connected to slicks and a rock hard suspension. But both give you the same amount of feeling for the car.
I tend to say that it's easier to connect to the car in RBR, but that might be personal preferance.
3. There is no serious driving experience in LFS. Crash, shift+s, drive on.
In RBR it's crash, loose the complete rally, recieve no points for the championship, skip all further stages. Crashing in RBR really leaves a bad taste. It doesn't in LFS.
4. To me only the Impreza '03 felt good out of the box. I had to decrease the rear ARB on the EVO VII, but love it after I did that.
5. Rallying needs a lot more concentration than racing. You have to cope with that. Keep one turn in memory, drive the turn the copilot announced before that, build an ideal line while listening, keep the car on it's limit during this and keep it there for 6 minutes.

And some newbie-hints:
Make sure RBR uses seperated axis correctly. Make sure you really learned everything in the lessons. You really can't do anything without the techniques from the lessons. Really. Keep yourself paced and don't drive too fast. Only drive when you're fully concentrated. Use your eyes only to see where the turns begin, but never to judge how narrow the turn is or where the apex is. Use the pace-notes for that. Make sure you're always fully focused on the game. You will always wreck when you only miss one pace-note. Always watch the replay after driving. Not because it looks absolutely great, but because it gives you time to recover before driving the next stage.

Vain

I think some comments may be verging on fanboyism tbh to say that LFS is a more serious simulation/more detailed on rx. My guess is those that are still struggling to get to grips are still trying to drive it like a racing car, complete the rally school and you'll soon realise you need to get the tail out, like you can't in LFS.

Actually you realise the same when driving a "rallye stage" in LFS. If you try to drive smoothly and grippy around the corners you just end up going nowhere but the wall infront. You really have to get sideways and let those tyres pull you "in" the corner if you want to go remotely fast. I think it's very cool that you can, no... have to use the same techniques used in RBR to be fast. The only real difference is that we don't have an active differential and weaker cars, but the rest feels very similar, alteast to me.

Okay, I'll install RBR Start, and a new engine pack. But which one. BHMS might have a lot of stuff, and some might even be rated, but it's just a load of text, and very hard work to find something when you don't know RBR very well.

The wheel I use is a Black Momo with ECCI pedals. There is no feeling whatsoever in RBR, or self centering. Just the constant default resistance. Do I need to effects sliders up in Windows?

Okay, so I get get car skins. But as I haven't bothered to watch a replay yet, my comments about the graphics were directed at the scenery. Can I change the FOV with RBR start or Camera Hack, maybe it's just set to something weird (for me). Maybe that's why I'm going to fast, as the sense of speed is too little (again, for me).

I'm not bothered by the sounds, as long as I can drive with them. How is RBR for this? Is it unuseable as a driving aid like ISI games, or is it like LFS/nKP?

I never said RBR had no tyre model, I said it felt, out of the box, as THOUGH it had no tyre model. Big difference. When I install LFS using default settings it feels 'right' out of the box (with about 5 minutes of setting up, and no mods required). Can I achieve the same with RBR? Or is RBR crap, and only RBR + certain mods = good? I'm being honest here, asking for help.

So far a lot of answers have been RBR fanboys assuming I'm taking the piss and jumping to it's defence. I don't want that, I want the LFS community (the best I've found) to tell me as it is. If I wanted fanboys I'd have posted at RSC.

I have no clue what your problem is, tristan. RBR worked out of the box on my PC, so I have few knowledge about common problems as there were none for me. But you seem to have a very weird problem with FFB. I'd question wether your wheel has power plugged in . If you think that the FFB-strenght is too low, increase it in the option.
And LFS is a fanboy-community. Saying otherwise is fanboyism.
Oh, and I dislike modding. All that configuration jazz isn't what I'm looking for when I seek entertainment. I can boot linux if I want config-files to break my head over.

Vain

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm not bothered by the sounds, as long as I can drive with them. How is RBR for this? Is it unuseable as a driving aid like ISI games, or is it like LFS/nKP?

RBR uses a system similar to LFS and the sounds are only there to change the note of the engine slightly, they do however, make a big difference and give each car more character IMO. Where to shift in these cars is confusing the rev counter only goes up to 7 grand and the shift light always comes on @ 5 and a half. I find I don't have time to look at it anyway so I am changing completely by engine note, something I can't really do in LFS on anything other than the lower power production cars.

This engine pack should have you sorted:

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/download/11687

Other individual downloads include new transmission wines, needed only really for non rally cars.


FOV can be adjusted in RBR start, it's set very low by default (around 50 maybe?) much lower even than N2003 can go which I like because it allows you to judge distance better IMO and there's no need for a wide FOV with no other cars and a narrow track. If your at all confused by the sense of speed slow down in RBR 160 km/h (100 mph) is only touched on the longest straights on the fastest stages.

On the fast stages watch out for nasty suprises over crests, the pacenotes are awful and running through a stage will soon let you learn where the pace notes will catch you out. There are new pace notes avaliable at BHM but I've not tried them yet. Also on the fast stages especially remember ruts in the road are not just there to look pretty, they can send the car flying if you hit them at speed.

And most of all remember that 140 km/h really is fast when your going down a rough, treelined dirt track.

If your still struggling then I'd recommend trying some Super 1600 cars, Fiat Punto is very safe with some understeer although it's not the fastest. The Ford Fiesta is probably my favourite 1600 a bit more lively but not overly twitchy.

Some of the new cars have more detailed cockpits (although no working dials) and there are mods at BHM to get an LED display in cockpit. I personally like the default RBR cockpits (or rather lack of them) for a rally sim you can get all the info you need in the HUD (I'd recommend full HUD as turbo and engine temp are important).

I will try a few of things you mentioned and see what happens (though probably not this weekend as I'm going away). Would anyone be able to confirm the 'best' settings for a Black Momo in both RBR and Windows? Mine is setup for perfect FFB in LFS, so many that doesn't work well in RBR? I don't know.

I never said LFS isn't fanboyist - all the sims are. But as I am part of the LFS community I felt I'd get a much more honest and mature reply than if I posted on RBR where everyone would assume I was 6. I'm sure once accepted into it the RBR community is very nice (though they can't be bothered to make a newbie guide, perhaps they're all too interested in making co-driver voice packs). Someone should organise BHMS properly too, it's so hard to find anything of any quality. This is why I'm so glad LFS isn't open to modding.

But I'll stick with it a bit more and see how I get on. I'm hoping I can unlock the rally sim everyone says is in there (even if they are girls rally cars nowadays), but right now it is NOT a good/realistic/fun experience (any of them).

I think RSC is a much better forum than BHM and it's not as slow as it used to be.

You possibly mind posting your settings in Windows and LFS? Both my wheels DFP (broken) and Logitech FF GP (older, big crack in it, no FF, but works sort of so will do as a substitute until I get round to sorting my DFP's warranty out) have ever felt great in LFS no matter what I try.

Quote from ajp71 :

I think some comments may be verging on fanboyism tbh to say that LFS is a more serious simulation/more detailed on rx. My guess is those that are still struggling to get to grips are still trying to drive it like a racing car, complete the rally school and you'll soon realise you need to get the tail out, like you can't in LFS.

Actually, to qualify my ramblings please make note that I do very well in RBR. When I first played it I completed all the training to get used to it. Anyone that thinks rally driving and race driving are analagous probably wouldn't be interested in RBR in the first place. As Android pointed out the same methods apply in LFS. Try the FXR w/ slickmod using rally tires and you'll notice just how similar it is, difference being you can feel the weight of the car in LFS, and LFS's force feedback tells you what the car is doing not just what's on the road.

I Agree with Vain's point about the severity of crashing of course, hopefully LFS will be like that soon. It really adds to the experience of RBR.

Yeah, no probs, will post pics when I get home from work. Watch this space for the edit at around 7 o'clock (depends how seized up the track rod ends are on my car when I adjust the tracking).

Edit: Here are the pics of my settings. I get beautiful feel. The wheel countersteers, I can feel when I'm locking, or at the limit, both in terms of understeer and oversteer. In fact, I'd doubt that FFB can get much better than this with current Logitech/Immersion technology, although a few more vibrations and stuff for rough roads might be nice, and I'd like separate settings for 'overall force' and 'instantaneous forces' so that vibrations are felt more over the general centering force.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

you can feel the weight of the car in LFS, and LFS's force feedback tells you what the car is doing not just what's on the road.

I've never really felt the weight of the car in LFS (probably my settings) but even with my wheel falling apart I can still feel the FF enough to feel the weight of the car changing in GPL/RBR. If by weight you mean LFS has more weighty steering then of course it should have because LFS simulates slick tires with no power steering and RBR simulates power assisted rally cars on loose surfaces.