After the last races showed low numbers of active racers Frank was wondering if 2 hours is too much for league races. I think these numbers are not because of the race length.

There are some circumstances which are linked to the current season and could explain the low number of active racers:

1. Holidays. The season started right into the main holiday time, for students and for the working lot. If you are 3 weeks away you will miss at least one race. And the hot temperatures (at last!) here are a problem too, leading to all kinds of hardware problems like blue screens or sweating

2. Real life. Some racers decided to spend more time away from lfs. The decision came after start of the season. The enthusiasm that S2 was finaly out and a new season was to be started could explain why this decision was done not until after the first races.

3. Long races. Personally, I think the races are exactly the right length. But some racers are on other timezones, so the start is pretty late. A suggestion on IRC was to let the race start at the full hour (20:00 CEST atm).

4. S2 finally out! Yes, we got some new features in S2: Pitstops, damage, fuel and tyre wear. So the idea of long races are promising more eventful and exciting races. In the next season wind will be added if I am informed correctly, adding one more variable to the list. Now, what connection has this to few racers in the starting grid? I think there are a lot new racers in the leage, because of the new circumstances set by the S2 release. Perhaps some were only trying endurance races and the races are really to long? I really would like to hear about it from the fresh faces in the league! Are the races like you thought it would be or did you expect something completely different?

5. Hardware problems as well as disconnects. Some of these are linked to the length of the races. But I really don't know what could be done to fix
this...

6. Qualification for the races. I really like this system, but a qualifying session spread over two days could be an improvement? There is the problem of not having all the sessions at the same time, but I don't know if this is a real problem. I could think of no situation where it would be a drawback and it would fix the problem of very fast racers racing in div c.

7. Qualification for the season. As Frank already stated on IRC it would have been better to stick to the first plan to have 80 racers who must qualify to get a slot from the 60 slots available on the three servers. There was a good reason why it was dropped, but for future seasons this system would help to fill the servers. If some racers have no time at the race date slower ones would automatically slide into the grid and would have a chance in torturing themselves with a two hour race.
If the qualify can't be done by a racer he would only be able to join the race if there are free places on the grid.


So these are the points I am seeing. Some of them could lead to some changes in the league, attracting more racers. And some should assure the person(s) in charge that they did a very good job :up: and that it is not their fault why so many racers dropped from the season.

As already stated I'd like to hear your point of view to these subjects!

1. Holidays.

Holidays have two sides. For me it is the other way around as you describe it. I have no money to spend on a holiday, so I was forced to stay at home. Now the university has started again I have a lot less time. I dont think I can be active in next seasons as a driver, next periods will be even more busy.

2. Real life.

I agree, but for some cases I think people should've seen it coming. Of course there are things that have such a big impact that I dont even think a professional race driver would race in such circumstances.

3. Long races.

But then people in the UK might come into time problems if they come home at 6 and then have to eat quickly and do a bit of practice. Especially the younger ones wont have such a big influence to make mum or dad cook earlier because of an online race. Parents never understand that

4. S2 finally out!

I guess for some people it is a tryout.

5. Hardware problems as well as disconnects.

Letting people rejoin after a disconnect and keeping the standings by InSim is a possiblity, and will be used in the Masters of Endurance league. One thing is that on such a short racelength it could be misused and there should be additional rules.

6. Qualification for the races.

Also a possibility, and should be possible if the qualification can be logged from the server itself (using InSim), instead from my own pc, as it happens now. I dont want to stay home for two nights just for LFS.

7. Qualification for the season.

Yes, a good idea that was dropped because of a bad reason, but ok. We will deffinately use this system in the next seasons.

it may be interesting to start a poll to understand why are there so many misses.
i think it is mostly summer holidays.

apart from that, it may be good to accept as much season registering as requested, even after the season has begun.
then, just allowing the 60 fastest drivers to race, for each race.

in others words, having a race per race registering (limited to 60); and in parallel maintaining a season standing.
it would allow to have 3 full divisions at each race and to accept people that just want participate to few races (beginners or those who have strong constraints).
for example some of my team mates have not registered just because they were not able to attend most races for sure.

i dont know if it is acceptable for the lfsendu team in terms of work load, which is already huge i believe.

cheers.

2 hrs is too much for most- 1 hr sould be the max imo.

This is supposed to be an endurance league and I would consider 2h minimum to be classified as an endurance race. With 1h races cars would be unbalanced again, when xrr can't take the advantage of less pit stops. 2h feels just right, but races could start an hour or half earlier. Maybe even more. Races start quite late here at GMT +2.

:twocents:

Quote from Tillverkad :

This is supposed to be an endurance league and I would consider 2h minimum to be classified as an endurance race. With 1h races cars would be unbalanced again, when xrr can't take the advantage of less pit stops. 2h feels just right, but races could start an hour or half earlier. Maybe even more. Races start quite late here at GMT +2.

:twocents:

i don't race in your series, but you're completely right here - endurance races in my eyes are 2+ hours - everything below that doesn't leave enough room for different strategies with different types of cars

i find 2 hours almost perfect.
different pitstop strategies are possible, and you really need to drive consistently.
more than 2 could be possible, but maybe not necessary.

I decided not to state my opinion on all of the 7 circumstances, because I probably won't be able to hold back myself and it wouldn't look good. But I'll tell this: 2 hours is THE optimum race length in Endurance League, well it is Endurance League after all, or was last time I checked . If racer's computer or iNet can't handle 2h, well that isn't Leagues fault.
I'm on my 1st Endu League, so it's a big learning curve for me. I've done 5 races in OLFSL before, one was like 1h 20+ minutes long.

For me the race length is good as I enjoy longer races. Start time is also good for me, but half an hour earlier wouldn't solve the problem. The thing is here, all those people (and even more than the 60 who qualified) did sign up and qualify. So they know what they're qualifying for and what was going to happen. I don't think the lack of attendace is caused by the rules and any of the other causes, but mainly because of this, and you to take my word as a league admin for this:

in about any league people will be enthusiastic at the start. After a while, the 1st few races or weeks, interest always drops and only about 60-70% of the people will keep racing in the league.

This effect might be a bit stronger because of the short time after the S2 release, but I also saw this effect in the 3rd season of my league with S1, and in many other cases.

League admin are humans after all and they also will make mistakes sometimes. Don't be too hard on them for this. The most important thing is that you learn from your mistakes.

2H are fine for me, too.
As the others said, its the Endurance League so it has to be long Races....

Its my first Endu-Season, but untill nothing irregular happens, i ll be racing more Seasons here
Its really fun and challenging!

The Time is ok for me, 1/2 a hour earlier might be good...
...but I can imagine that people living more East and thus starting even later have problems with staying fit until Racestart (perhaps after a long working day...)

Are there any disadvantages with a Rule like 80 Drivers Qualify for 60 free Raceslots? It sounds ok for me....

2H are fine for me, too. Thats the min. Time for a Endu-Race for me