So it is either up to Victor or they get someone to work for them (very unlikely) to do PR's. Scawen seems a bit stressed out since his tyre physics plans haven't gone too well. The last thing he will want is people moaning at him for trying to do his best and being forced to answer why development speed is slow over and over again.
Scawan's wife (damn I forgot her name) were mentioned to be in sort of PR position, but I guess the idea just disappeared without notice....not that I would expect that to work out anyway.
LFS is much like an indie band, they made a few good records, had a bit of fun, picked up a few self-important fanboys and then gone with the wind. That's how it should be.
Holy cow, I di'nt knew that!
Even tho people are losing interest in LFS, and it affects MoE, IGTC, etc., moans won't bring Scirocco/Rockingham/Physics or whatsoever you want. Its easy to compare LFS to rFactor or iRacing itself, which is waay too overpriced. Like Devildare said, LFS is made by 3 enthusiasts who were keen to spend their time on making this, and I reckon they're not happy or motivated to do any more when they see dramatic whines of "lfs is too old" "wheres my scirocco" "tyre physics are bad, gimme new" etc. etc.
I think that if the dev's expanded the current selection to a American stock car, and maybe incorporated more ovals. That they could increase the sales in the Americas. Maybe just sell it as an addon pack of ovals with an oval car. Lfs would be a great alternative to THOSE WHO CANT AFFORD IRACING BUT STILL WANT REALISTIC OVAL RACING! I am sure the devs could also find people in the community to help them with the data and testing physics for this. As long as it isnt NASCAR promoted, I'm sure that general stock cars could be developed and various ovals including fictional and realistic tracks could be created.
I have some experience in Nascar Heat with modeling tracks , I can tell you that it isnt the hardest thing in the world to do. However I am sure the physics portion is rather difficult. I know that the devs really do not want to allow player editing but it may be a good idea. Instead of having people release random mod's maybe have it so that the devs must approve them and then they can release them to the cummunity via the LFS forums.
The devs should consider the input we give them as we are the reason they are getting money from this simulator. I think the devs have done a great job developing and the quality is great bit the speed isnt all that great. I am sure that there are people out there willing to help. If the devs want to make more money from this sim then they will need to release new updates more rapidly, or atleast give us updates, so people will have their money in their hands and be ready to buy some new trakcs or cars.
There is no way that the cummunity will survive at this rate, and it should survive, because the sim is great. The devs need to step in a little bit more and show us screenshoots and videos of what these new tireswill do, how the new cars look, and maybe a passover of the track ? All these little things can help LFS succeed more easily.
And lastly, advertising. LFS does NOT ADVERTISE WHATSOEVER. We should be advertising at sim racing sites, advertising at real racing sites, and more... maybe promoting it to real life drivers asking them to try it for realism and to increase the popularity, because if they like it they will recomend it.
Thank you.
PS: I think the devs have done a great job and I am really enjoying myself but this SIM could use some more development or atleast teasers. To us it looks very slow but I am sure that you are working hard and not showing us everthing.
I think Scawen is doing the right thing to take his time to get his head around the physics as this will probably be the last time he does a major overhaul on tyre physics. Ultimately if he can get that right the rest will fall into place imo One of the key differences between LFS and iRacing that I find currently is that in LFS I'd get up to a certain performance level then really struggle to see how it's possible to go faster, in iRacing I still have to work hard at going faster but I always feel I can get more out of it. Hard to describe what I mean there but I believe it comes down to the tyre physics and track dynamics it's just more convincing in iRacing at the moment. I don't see why LFS has to compete with iRacing either as I'll certainly give S3 a go when it comes out and if I like it will run that along with iRacing - the two can happily coincide
If the below people would have read the above, I wouldn't have felt so obliged to report their posts.
I do agree with some points, a few more updates would be nicer, but I don't expect this and it probably won't happen. Maybe one a month would do.
Also, a three man dev team is cute and feels more homemade, but its not getting the job done as fast as the community seems to want. As said, a few more devs, even if it was just doubling the team size would help very much. Pick a few people out of the addons section, like Lynce, ask if they would help and see how it goes.
If you can't even be bothered to read my thread, why can you be bothered to post in it?
Anyway, I'm happy you posted this as it proves my point: spam is a problem on LFS Forum.
Now, if you can't have your own opinion, either shut up or buy one. Thanks.
I must say, I pretty much tried to chock people on purpose with argument n°3. Scawen isn't really lying to us indeed, but lots of work need to be done on the communication and customer service side of the sim. No one knows exactly what Scawen stated about X or Y except people actually searching for Scawen's post history because no one can be bothered to read the "Progress Report thread" until page 35.
I do know that Scawen cares of his sim, somehow But I'm mostly stating that for any casual people, he's giving the impression to hide himself in the masses. As I stated before, LFS.net is an underused tool, why don't Scawen use it a bit more in order to express his mood?
Well, I kinda agree on that one. Moaning should be allowed of course(And it'd better be for me, because I'm kinda moaning right now:razz, I just meant that moaning has some limits and should remain constructive. Posts such as "Scawen sucks, now give update or go die in a fire" are a good example of unconstructive(and unrespectous towards the devs and the community) that shouldn't be allowed. And this is why the mods are there.
This makes sence, yea But I do belive that LFS has the potential to at least keep its current quality members if minimal efforts are done now.
This makes sence, and not so much time ago, I used to think like you. But obviously, the amount of quality people moving/willing to move to iRacing is just making me too sad
Yeah, somehow I agree. This post tries to prove JJ72's point, so check my answer to JJ72's post for my reaction about this.
Sorry, what do you mean exactly?
Haha. I must say, I laughed on that one
Now, seeing your post history and your sig, I have good reasons to think that the only reason why you're hanging on there is to troll. So I can understand that you have reasons to tr to pretend I'm ill. Just check again what I proposed for the guys like you. Section 2), "What should be done about it", first proposition, that is
Good you expressed your opinion I think. This is rather nice to see people stil enjoying the game for what it is now, and what it could be, but it shouldn't be.
I guess you didn't read my thread well anyway as I'm not really speaking about the way is developped but much more the way LFS is maintained and promoted. These are rather different things.
Fantastically worded post In fact its probably the best post i have seen around here in a while... But it is just another one of the many "I'm bored, give me new content" threads.
Development continues, the devolopment plan is set. our job in the community is to wait... patiently... OR if thats not possible, Play something else whilst waiting...
@ EliteAti... I beg to differ, Theres been plenty of moderation going on, Although you might not notice it due to the amount of bad users currently stalking the forums.
This thread is likely to end in one of 2 ways.. either with a Fanboy vs non-Fanboy flame war, or closed.
It seems "ok" right now, but i'll be monitering closely over the next few hours.
Although i cant say i agree with the thread title, Perhaps you would consider changing it for the sake of keeping things tidy...
@Bmx: why give them more work, when the issue is completing the work that already needs to be done? And you won't get realistic oval racing with unrealistic cars anyway.
Leave the ovals to rFactor, NH and iRacing, and let LFS be what it is.
I agree with the first bit, but I disagree that it's a "give me more content" style thread. I think he (Greybull) is highlighting what he feels should be done to improve the relationship between Scavier and the consumers, and I would agree the bond between 3 devs and the users of their product, that have paid for it to help pay their bills, is a bit lacking. I would personally like to see this increased.
It's a joke about the Brazilian "LFS is doomed" trio that all started here: http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=3643 (please note both date and general content/aim of the thread)
I'm aware the devs aren't gonna follow exactly what they read in this section anyway, but I still belive they read the forum once in a while, which helps them to see how the community react and such.
Unfortunately I can't afford iRacing and anyway, I just love LFS more than I could enjoy iR. But there are interresting ideas in iR that the LFS devs could consider.
Indeed,you cannot really compare LFS with iR, as they are so much different. But somehow, they are competing together, as they both are racing sims and are attracting the same type of customers. And LFS is loosing many players to iR. If LFS wants to remain competitive against iR then it'll have make some chances I guess.
Indeed
Totally agree.
Thanks, but nah, it isn't really. Most of the OP isn't dealing with the content, but much more with the general strategy the devs are trying to follow, which isn't well understable for the random community member. Most of the people do not understand if the devs are still working on LFS, what they really think about how's the community going, if they enjoy the stuff some community members are working on...
IMO, either you decide to act like a big company and let the community deal with its own forums, or you decide to stay close to the community and take some of your time to answer to the fans etc.
The thing is, if you are willing to follow option n°1, you actually have to maintain a place where you actually tell people what
I have the feeling LFS can't really decide between the two options unfortunately, which ends up in a messy public relation system.
Promotion is heavily interlinked with development, from my PoV. I don't particularly want LFS to be promoted much with no ETA on S2 "retail". In the current stage of development, which RL racers use LFS is of no interest to me. Featuring community content and events would be fine, but tbh until certain steps in development have taken place, I'd do no more than spend 5 seconds skimming a feature
I'm stuck with the same situation as you, so I can only use LFS. iRacing looks great and if LFS had more devs, it would be able to keep up and also improve to similar levels.
I agree. They're acting like a big company, but they're only small. The phrase "Acting too big for their boots." springs to mind.
You make absolutely no sence dude. If you feel this thread is useless, ignore it, don't troll it like that, it's just so stupid, and your own bullshit won't improve anything there either. Unless you enjoy trolling, which is probably the case.
Franky, Piggy is right actually. Time to do something for the moderation perhaps?
This is what i was on about saying 'demotivating'. If he'd go all out regulary and share his 'feeling' or self expectations, the flaming and especially rumors, ect, would only be pushed. Past has shown that this happens inevitably.
You need to consider here again, that not all users, may it be licensed or demo, are as mature as others. After all it's a public forum.
And 1 thing i'd like to say regards Iracing. If i'm informed correct. Krammer is basicly working for 20 years on iracing, by making connections and so on... so this will always be hard to keep up.
I think once it's finished they will promote it properly.
PS: I'd agree on the moderating issuse.. at least sometimes in the skins section. But thats just my 2 cents
Great post Greybull and you have serious points here.
IMO LFS guided racings sims just up to the level when they became acceptable by real racers community what they treated before as "playstation games". I was hoping then that those communities would interfere and sims would even become a playground area for future real racers. However LFS progress slowed down, some flaws are to be fixed now, and iRacing went over that point and became such a platform that gives opportunity for a lot of people to race with real life racers.
I would blame contradictory objectives that devs have - first, the very important point of LFS was to have best phisics best optimized for online play that gives respect for the sim.
Second, I reckon, and I seriously and undoubtely do not know why, that popularity of demo servers, mostly populated by kids, is something regarded by devs as rewarding. Graphics and new content is something appauling to gameplayers, therefore I also dont understand why devs dont give props to third parties creating such content that would be appreciated by gameplayers. Well they did, some of them where included in several patches I think.
So I see as as a challenge is to find good equilibrium or rather solutions to those objectives.
I also agree that this forum is known for the community so any new content that would promote LFS and its capabilities on the official site would be welcomed.
Put them in an office and let them work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, like most people in this world does while still managing family and other stuff, and I'm sure things would happen a lot faster. But as we all know that's not the way they want to work, and the reason they went solo. I totally undestand that, and it sure has its upsides, but also some downsides.
But I'm mostly stating that for any casual people, he's giving the impression to hide himself in the masses. As I stated before, LFS.net is an underused tool, why don't Scawen use it a bit more in order to express his mood?
, I just meant that moaning has some limits and should remain constructive. Posts such as "Scawen sucks, now give update or go die in a fire" are a good example of unconstructive(and unrespectous towards the devs and the community) that shouldn't be allowed. And this is why the mods are there.
But I do belive that LFS has the potential to at least keep its current quality members if minimal efforts are done now.
