ask not what your race sim can do for you ask what you can do for your race sim
ok ill stop paraphrasing bubba ho tep now
ok ill stop paraphrasing bubba ho tep now
Why LFS is seriously ill, and why the developpers should change their strategies
(76 posts, closed, started )
very nice first post....sad thing is that it won't change anything...
If your so smart and business acute won't don't you start your own racing simulator?
oh... thought not!
Sorry but this post just made me literally do an epic facepalm. I would have done a double facepalm but my hands are so large it takes only one to cover my face.
I'm not going to point out what is wrong with it. Seriously dude. If you can't figure it out yourself, then [insert rude personal insult regarding one's parents using contraceptives here].
these people did http://www.xmotorracing.com/
it looks that they can achieve something similar to rFactor model with more advanced phisics
Sorry for OT, but have you actually tried it? Its physics are horrible
That said, however, the argument that you must've done something yourself before you can criticise it is absolute BS.
actually not, just saw car configuration screenshots
edit: actually I just did... and can say nothing
I know my comp is not modern but I didnt think it is such a crap. It goes quite well for high graphics and full grid in LFS and in x-motor was such a crap - 1 car, graaphics on lowest and just few fps... pfffI HAZ BINGO!!!!
Where's my prize?
looks like im the fool then... spell it out to me would you please
In my opinion, LFS is hardly a sustainable project with the amount of development it receives, and from what we recently learned, simply from the amount of attention it receives. I do not think that Scawen at any point expected, or wanted, LFS to become a huge production game. He's got his style of work, and if it wasn't suited for him, he'd have found out by now. It is, however, not suited for the game.
In fact, maybe it's a sustainable project, but only that, and nothing more. Stagnancy is not something you want a video game to do.
Hiring more people would really be the only way to get out of this in a significant way, but obviously that will not happen.
I've always liked LFS (proof, I'm still here), and I've always thought that it was a project with immense potential. However, at this point in time, I'm forced to admit that it will remain a project with unfulfilled hopes; whose potential will remain untouched. I'm still fond of this game, but maybe I'm just kidding myself when I come to these forums every day, to see if there's something interesting new going on.
Ultimately, I think that Scawen's idea of the game simply does not fit anybody else but him. This is not how you develop a successful video game.
In fact, maybe it's a sustainable project, but only that, and nothing more. Stagnancy is not something you want a video game to do.
Hiring more people would really be the only way to get out of this in a significant way, but obviously that will not happen.
I've always liked LFS (proof, I'm still here), and I've always thought that it was a project with immense potential. However, at this point in time, I'm forced to admit that it will remain a project with unfulfilled hopes; whose potential will remain untouched. I'm still fond of this game, but maybe I'm just kidding myself when I come to these forums every day, to see if there's something interesting new going on.
Ultimately, I think that Scawen's idea of the game simply does not fit anybody else but him. This is not how you develop a successful video game.
Just out of intrest, why does it say "You have already rated this thread" when I try to give this more than 1 star? 
I didnt vote before.
I didnt vote before.A long jumbled mess in no particular order...
The_Angry_Angel recently moved on from moderation, and it was suggested that someone take his place, but there was no further discussion after that, at least in public.
Forum bug, I reported it to victor a month or so ago, no fix as of yet.
A thread discussing one's dislike for particular items relating to LFS shouldn't be grounds for moderation, unless things get really out of hand. Franky said it pretty well...
The problem in this aspect isn't the moderators, it's the forum goers. Because people are inherently biased, there probably isn't much that can be done outside of locking those threads, and handing out infractions to people who create new threads just to spam their dislike.
I actually like this idea. The current LFS main page is rather plain. The problem here is, that there are so many leagues going on at the same time, it would probably turn into a similar area like the LFSW news section, if not worse.
I've tried watching a couple streams of races in the past, and the sites that people are doing these broadcasts from are rather bad. Laggy chatboxes, people's MSN's going off during the broadcast, and other problems can make watching steams unbearable. If there was a better way of doing these broadcasts though, I'd be all for it. With regards to publicizing LFS via leagues, MTV3 Finland.
I won't even go there, that horse has already been beaten to death. With only 3 developers, one being dedicated to actual game coding, and no dedicated PR agent, the chances of this happening are rather slim.
Most definitely. They told us that they are reworking the physics (especially with tires). They told us we're getting a new car and track, with the possibility of even more in the future. I believe that is sufficient, regardless of the it takes to actually get them done and released. Victor keeps his own LFSW dev blog VIA the home icon (despite the lack of mentioning that the chatbox is gone).
VWS video Rockingham "blog" Rockingham's RL official track configurations
i think i'm done for now, i'm probably getting close to the post character limit.
The_Angry_Angel recently moved on from moderation, and it was suggested that someone take his place, but there was no further discussion after that, at least in public.
Forum bug, I reported it to victor a month or so ago, no fix as of yet.
A thread discussing one's dislike for particular items relating to LFS shouldn't be grounds for moderation, unless things get really out of hand. Franky said it pretty well...
The problem in this aspect isn't the moderators, it's the forum goers. Because people are inherently biased, there probably isn't much that can be done outside of locking those threads, and handing out infractions to people who create new threads just to spam their dislike.
I actually like this idea. The current LFS main page is rather plain. The problem here is, that there are so many leagues going on at the same time, it would probably turn into a similar area like the LFSW news section, if not worse.
I've tried watching a couple streams of races in the past, and the sites that people are doing these broadcasts from are rather bad. Laggy chatboxes, people's MSN's going off during the broadcast, and other problems can make watching steams unbearable. If there was a better way of doing these broadcasts though, I'd be all for it. With regards to publicizing LFS via leagues, MTV3 Finland.
I won't even go there, that horse has already been beaten to death. With only 3 developers, one being dedicated to actual game coding, and no dedicated PR agent, the chances of this happening are rather slim.
Most definitely. They told us that they are reworking the physics (especially with tires). They told us we're getting a new car and track, with the possibility of even more in the future. I believe that is sufficient, regardless of the it takes to actually get them done and released. Victor keeps his own LFSW dev blog VIA the home icon (despite the lack of mentioning that the chatbox is gone).
VWS video Rockingham "blog" Rockingham's RL official track configurations
i think i'm done for now, i'm probably getting close to the post character limit.
+1 to GreyBull for this thread - one of the most thought provoking Mature threads I have seen on the LFS forums in the last 3 years
Well done Fella
A sad day........
When I asked myself the posing question.
If a friend today inquired that they were thinking of getting into sim racing and asked you - What would be the sim of choice ?
I don't think I could currently point that friend towards LFS in it's current state of stagnation.
Well done Fella
A sad day........
When I asked myself the posing question.
If a friend today inquired that they were thinking of getting into sim racing and asked you - What would be the sim of choice ?
I don't think I could currently point that friend towards LFS in it's current state of stagnation.
If I could suggest anything I would say that phisics development and graphical content (cars, graphics, tracks maybe not - it splitters online racers) should be separated so Scawen could concentrate solely on the first and the second could be treated as platform.
Nowadays settings allow treating the cars as types (ie. small front engined FWD, middle-engined RWD and so on). So if there were type specific settings limitations (ie. CoG placement or race regulations like: weight, capacity, suspesions availability) cars made by community would be not much diversed than they are today (settings range are very wide), they would just look differently (well, I think collision model uses the same mesh for body...)
There is a feature of limited setups to be introduced, especially with Scirocco. Therefore there would be no danger of rF model with bunch of completely insane designs if the type settings limits were picked sensibly. And the setting limits could be applied not only for the type server-side but to the new models by their creators also. It would require skin-like management, with possibility to approve them from lfsworld, so model not found would use default model.
Therefore Scawen wouldnt be moaned for new content (which would be created in dispersed model) and could tune physics made only by him.
They should start selling add-ons like iRacing, PSN, etc.
Cash is a great motivator.
Cash is a great motivator.
what a thread. lol.
People seriously need to find something else to do. JJ72's comparison with indie bands is nearly spot on tbh.
People seriously need to find something else to do. JJ72's comparison with indie bands is nearly spot on tbh.
very nice avatar,
iRacing FTW! or LFS
Simply allowing custom tracks, not cars, would boost the community a huge amount.
I guess smaller updates, more frequently, then a slightly bigger update a bit less often. Kind of like Jagex & RuneScape; they have a great development strategy that has been extremely successful over the past 10 years.
I guess smaller updates, more frequently, then a slightly bigger update a bit less often. Kind of like Jagex & RuneScape; they have a great development strategy that has been extremely successful over the past 10 years.
@ GreyBull: while your first post is well written, your thread title comes across as being hostile and is likely to attract negative posts from the wider community.
@ members: If you don't have a relevant opinion to post, or you can't post it without personal insult, or you just want to vent your ten year old temper on everybody who posts on this forum, piss off.
@ members: If you don't have a relevant opinion to post, or you can't post it without personal insult, or you just want to vent your ten year old temper on everybody who posts on this forum, piss off.
Good point with the title. Never noticed it, but now you mention it, I agree.
And the rest of your post made me lol. Straight to the point :P
i agree with everything this thread is saying for the most part.....
we should definately have more dev interactions, maybe saturday night bingo
but serioulsy.....i think if they could promote by getting advertisements on places like facebook, google, myspace, youtube, and anywhere else possible, then some big-shot rich guy might feel motivated to fund it under a few conditions.
anyone know where i can get permission to make a facebook add for LFS, i know there is a button that says "create your own ad" but i also need permission.
we should definately have more dev interactions, maybe saturday night bingo
but serioulsy.....i think if they could promote by getting advertisements on places like facebook, google, myspace, youtube, and anywhere else possible, then some big-shot rich guy might feel motivated to fund it under a few conditions.
anyone know where i can get permission to make a facebook add for LFS, i know there is a button that says "create your own ad" but i also need permission.
The fact that were still talking about the "same old bullshit for five years" is exactly what the OP is trying to say , do you honestly feel the LFS community as a whole should be discussing the same faults in the game and its Devs for five years?
You would think after that time we would have a whole new load of bullshit to speak about.
Even if you feel the OP is completely wrong, stupid,fanboi etc etc etc we should commend him on his passion for LFS as its pretty obvious from his post he truly cares about this sim. I may have it arse about face but this post is along way from moaning and whining.
+1
I think most people forgot or didnt care to notice that this is Yann posting here...not some random drifter demo driver. Criticism is NOT necessarily a negative thing...it is different than meaningless whining (which is what a lot of demo drivers do). A lot of people's unconditional loyalty and love for LFS has made them blind to the current state of the game.
I don't think there's any reason to be too upset over the way community events are handled by the dev team currently. Most of this stuff is taken care of via the forum- the top section on the main page relates to community events- 'LFS News Headlines', for instance, which mirrors news posted over at LFS World. 'LFS in the News' is also the top sticky in the main discussion section (mostly outside promotional news). The forum is a service provided by the LFS team, and in most instances it works well. I don't think the devs can really be blamed for not imagining that this isn't enough to satisfy the various community developments.
lfs.net serves its function well by acting as the primary source of information on LFS the game, itself. Minutiae such as Bawbag winning the latest championship wouldn't be of much to interest to new players who have never heard of Bawbag to begin with. Similarly, there are probably very few examples of former/current LFS players who have gone onto success in real life racing careers and as such, again probably doesn't justify placement on the main site. As forums naturally represent the domain of community activity- probably the best place to talk about community stuff is on the forum.
Other people have maintained very good LFS related sites over the years. Master Skinnerz, LFS-Database, Team Inferno's Setup Field, various fan and related news pages, etc. These are well known sites. I think if the devs wanted to draw attention to a kind of 'best of' of the various community projects via a new site- they would have. I would agree with you here that the active portion of the LFS community doesn't get the look in it sometimes deserves by the devs, but that is for the community to deal with. Not every software company is enthusiastic about or even interested in their community making their game for them.
Your argument that the forum has become tainted by 'an heterogeneous melt of trolls, perverts and kids' has been well discussed. I won't go into it here- all I'll say is that if someone wants to start seperating 'wheat from chaff' then there's nothing really stopping them. As mentioned above, there are good examples of sites already existing catering to various LFS interests. These sites don't need dev sanctioning, they just need community input and support.
lfs.net serves its function well by acting as the primary source of information on LFS the game, itself. Minutiae such as Bawbag winning the latest championship wouldn't be of much to interest to new players who have never heard of Bawbag to begin with. Similarly, there are probably very few examples of former/current LFS players who have gone onto success in real life racing careers and as such, again probably doesn't justify placement on the main site. As forums naturally represent the domain of community activity- probably the best place to talk about community stuff is on the forum.
Other people have maintained very good LFS related sites over the years. Master Skinnerz, LFS-Database, Team Inferno's Setup Field, various fan and related news pages, etc. These are well known sites. I think if the devs wanted to draw attention to a kind of 'best of' of the various community projects via a new site- they would have. I would agree with you here that the active portion of the LFS community doesn't get the look in it sometimes deserves by the devs, but that is for the community to deal with. Not every software company is enthusiastic about or even interested in their community making their game for them.
Your argument that the forum has become tainted by 'an heterogeneous melt of trolls, perverts and kids' has been well discussed. I won't go into it here- all I'll say is that if someone wants to start seperating 'wheat from chaff' then there's nothing really stopping them. As mentioned above, there are good examples of sites already existing catering to various LFS interests. These sites don't need dev sanctioning, they just need community input and support.
I agree with the general feeling of the OP that LFS needs some new direction, marketing, etc. as before long, events will probably overtake it and LFS could become an irrelevance. The closest analogy that springs to my mind is the old space warfare game Elite, which was great in its time but nowadays if you wanted to play that kind of game you'd choose Eve Online because it's all that Elite was and much more. I'm sure there are many other analogies too. However at the moment I personally don't see anything in the other sims (that I'm aware of) that blows LFS completely out of the water just yet. As an example, as a European, I find Iracing seems rather US-centric and I begrudge paying subscription money for a simulator where I don't really relate to the cars, tracks and terminology used for example. But if an iracing.eu or iracing.co.uk version came along, with a more European or international flavour, I would be more likely to give it a try.
For me LFS is still the best racing sim but if it is left for too much longer without a fresh lick of paint to generate some new interest, something else will come along which we will all end up playing instead and the collective will to improve LFS will be lost. At the moment LFS still gets occasional mentions in Sim Racing Tonight, but eventually there will be nothing new for them to report on and that will be the last that SRT viewers hear of it.
I suppose the other thing that could happen, which I have seen in other computer games where the original developers have moved on or lost interest, is that they release the code so someone else can pick it up and run with it. I do hope that LFS continues from strength to strength but do worry sometimes that it could just wither on the vine.
For me LFS is still the best racing sim but if it is left for too much longer without a fresh lick of paint to generate some new interest, something else will come along which we will all end up playing instead and the collective will to improve LFS will be lost. At the moment LFS still gets occasional mentions in Sim Racing Tonight, but eventually there will be nothing new for them to report on and that will be the last that SRT viewers hear of it.
I suppose the other thing that could happen, which I have seen in other computer games where the original developers have moved on or lost interest, is that they release the code so someone else can pick it up and run with it. I do hope that LFS continues from strength to strength but do worry sometimes that it could just wither on the vine.
This thread is closed
Why LFS is seriously ill, and why the developpers should change their strategies
(76 posts, closed, started )
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG