Hey guys

Need some assistance with this one. Just moved Isp from cable to ADSL due to moving home. Now Im lucky if I can connect to a server, let alone race.

Before I go and tear my ISP a new 'a' could it be something with my setup?

Im pretty sure my pc is good as I average 250fps. It's currently hard wired to the router which is connected to the master socket in the house.

I tried a ping test of www.liveforspeed.net which came out at an average of 54ms with no dropped packets. Download speed isn't great but it should be enough for LFS but when I eventually get in a server the little bar graph in the bottom left just rises up into the red and I lose connection.

Are there any tweaks I can make to help the connection or am I up the smelly backwater with no means of propulsion?

Cheers
Lister

Try speedtest.net and pingtest.net and post the results here.

Are you using an ADSL filter between the modem and the master socket?

How long did you run ping for? Try at least 100 to get a decent reading (ping -n 100 lfs.net)

What kind of ADSL (1/2/2+)? who is the ISP? Do you have problems connecting at all times of the day or only some?

Thanks for the response.

Ok, did the ping -n 100

Packets: Sent = 100, recieved = 94, lost = 6

min = 53ms, max = 59ms, average = 55ms

I assume then the lost packets are the cause of the problem?





Pretty poor results really. Im with Sky on their connect service cause our local exchange isn't LLU. Im assuming its ADSL2. There is an ADSL filter on the master socket which is the only telephone outlet in the house.

There doesn't appear to be much change in the connection depending on the time of day, however I did manage to get two races in last night at 2AM!! having tried connecting all evening.


Lister

Thats A LOT of jitter, wow!

That means your ping is varying by as much as 196ms. So your ping of 145ms is jumping up as high as 341ms....

I'd suggest checking the wiring going to your phone jack.. make sure there arent any bare/exposed wires touching each other or anything else, and that they are securely connected to the phone jack. If you're not comfortable doing that, call your telco/ISP.

As well, do you happen to know how far you are from your local telco exchange (C.O.)? The farther you are, the worse the DSL connection quality will become. See this for more info on why distance from the CO is important: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/4676

Packet loss is one of the problems (and will cause you to loose connection to any server sooner or later) although the high-ish ping and high jitter will make car-car interaction horrible.

If they don't have LLU at your exchange, you'll most likely be on ADSL1 (someone else may be able to confirm how sky broadband works when not LLU)

That download speed is fairly shocking - as teedot asked, how far away is your exchange? (If you don't know, look in your router status for something like 'downstream attenuation' - it'll be a number, most likely reported in dB. Failing that, PM me your post code and I'll look it up for you.)

I'm assuming as you're with sky, you also have a sky TV box? If so, chain two ADSL filters between the sky box and anything else - that trick is supposed to solve all sorts of problems on ADSL2+; it'll probably help with ADSL as well.

Another thing to try:
Plug a touch-tone phone directly into the master socket, dial 17070 and go to option 2.
This is known as the quiet line test - the connection should be absolutely silent - no hiss, pops or crackles.
If you hear anything, that would indicate a fault on the line - phone BT and mention the quiet line test.

Sky connect is just a re-badged version of the BT ADSL service AFAIK.

According to the samknows exchange checker Im 0.35 miles from the nearest exchange as the crow flies which I would consider being pretty close.

The current stats off the router as of 20:42 gmt, there is no notable change in these figures at different times of day.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7616 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 16.0 db 9.0 db
Noise Margin 15.8 db 24.0 db

I've completely removed the extention put in for the tv box cause the Sky engineer made a complete bodge job of running the cable through the house so that shouldn't be an issue.

I tried the quiet line test and it was totally clear.

Really starting to tear my hair out now!

Lister

Just tried plugging the ADSL filter into the test socket and got a little improvement.





Got on a server for a whole 3 minutes! Yay! :chair::chair::chair:

Lister, have you had the front part of the BT socket off and connected the router (via microfilter) directly to the "test socket" on the back part of the master socket? (EDIT:: Whooops, was typing as you posted )

Have you tried another microfilter?

next step would be to try with another router, however, IIRC I was told by an engeneer a while back that for the first week-10days your ADSL conn will be more unstable as the line goes through an automatic testing/setup period where different speeds and niose/error correction profiles are tested, to give the most stable line (I'm not 100% sure thats true tho ).

Have you tried shift+F8 ingame (network debug)? just to get an idea how bad it is when you do connect to a server.

Do you have another PC or laptop you could try LFS on, even on demo only.
I had a similar condition that looked like ISP/Conn prob, but after os reinstall the problem dissapeared.

Good luck

SD.

Hi SparkyDave

I've tried all the filters that came from sky and one really old one I had kicking around, all with the same result.

I have heard about the 10 day 'setup' period from a few sources and I would imagine If I go and shout at Sky it will undoubtedly be their excuse for the problem.

That takes me to next Thursday which is nearly 8 weeks, 8 ****ing weeks after the original installation before I can say anything.

Im starting to miss Virgin already, customer service was rubbish but I was racing on a 10meg (8meg true) connection 10 minutes after the engineer left at the old house.

Turned the network debug on. It didn't really tell me anything whilst connecting to the server. Once in the server it periodically came up with TCP AV :InitTime with +2 or -1. Once just after I connected it came up with -180 in red but didn't say anything prior to losing connection.

I have to put my hands up and say that this is getting beyond my level of understanding.

I've left my laptop at work this weekend so I can't try that but Im having the same problems with Xbox Live. CoD and BC2 are unplayable if I can get a connection at all.

Lister

it can be so frustrating being able to surf the web fine yet not able to play lfs.

couple of thoughts, is the cable connecting the router to the filter ok unravelled completely? ( I imagine if your anything like me you've removed it and re-inserted a few times), and the patch cable to your PC is that ok? any kinks? or loose plugs ( you might, have a cable tester built into the network drivers on your PC)

Is the router in a hot place or maybe somewhere with electrical interference? (try turning off any low voltage and flourescent lights or anything that could be suspect, I have read that the router should be at least 2m from any sky or sky+box) try moving it if you can to the extent of the cables reach, worth a try.

Have you changed any settings in the router setup page?, have you upgraded the routers firmware? you could try a full factory settings reset and then re input all your login etc.

I take it your router has a built in spi firewall, they normally do, if you want to risk it for a very short time, just to test, try disabling it but only for short test, you understand, at your own risk.

I wouldn't rule out phoning the tech support (watch out for those 0871 numbers often £1 / min +) and explaining the situation they should be able to see the errors/discos on the logs, and can alter your s-n ratio and conn speed from their SW you may find a lower speed will give much better ping stability, as the more data pumped down the line = more noise too (stupid BT copper shite) anyway worth a shot as last resort, however the people trusted to change your settings are normally not the after hours/weekend crew.

might be you have a fault on the line (does look that way I'm 3k+ away from exchange, stable at 3-4kbps conn speed) again tech support should be able to do a proper line test or try BT on 151 (free I think)and ask them to do one.

could even be your new ISPs traffic shaping kicking in, I have read that an LFS packet looks very similar to a P2P packet, not sure about coD or bc2 tho.

Well thats a few thoughts sorry its somewhat of a jumble of Qs

good luck.

SD.

Hmm, I'm out of ideas for solutions tbh, short of contacting sky/bt.

The 10 day thing is to determine the best sync speed for the line. This usually causes the connection to loose sync several times (would mean a complete disconnect for a minute or three), which is nothing like the problems you're describing.

From the attenuation figures you gave, the distance from the exchange is certainly not the problem. If you were to get ADSL2+, you should ideally get ~22mbit at 16dB, according to be - although the attenuation would be different with ADSL2+, so that won't be an accurate figure. You should certainly be able to get at least 5-6mbit on ADSL1.

The problem is like one or more of:
- congestion at the exchange
- problem with the line itself or its connection to the exchange
- problem with cabling between the line and the router/modem
- problem with the modem

1.3mbit actual and those latencies is unacceptable for an 'up to 8meg' ADSL connection when you're that close to the exchange. Call tech support is all I can really suggest for now.


ed: stick your phone number in the box at the top of this page to see what you should get with ADSL2+ (or ADSL1 if be isn't enabled on your exchange). There's a similar test in the broadband section of BT's site.

Tested just now off my laptop via wireless with my missus on hers too.

Go figure.....

Looks like Im heading for a fresh windows7 install.

Just downloading LFS on to the laptop now to give it test.

Thanks for the replys. I guess if this doesn't work, the last resort is speaking to sky. Incidentally I was talking to a friend in the town who lives the same distance from the same exchange. He has the BT version of what we have and he gets between 3 and 4 Mbps on a pretty stable connection.

Lister

ETA: LFS downloading at least 4 times faster than a PDF I was downloading last night.

And people slate Virgin Media's broadband connection. There are definite advantages of cable over adsl!

People also slate BT Wholesale.

Most problems with ISPs and/or bad quality connections are down to congestion. BT Wholesale (any non-LLU '8 meg' service) is usually oversubscribed and as such can't handle the traffic going through it.
Cable isn't immune to this either - the connection is still shared, but with people on your street, as well as people in the same town or on the backhaul. Traffic management and silly daily download limits still apply to VM cable (unless you fork out for the top-tier package). Location and who set up the connection in the first place (NTL/Telewest/Blueyonder) dictates how many people it's shared with and if it affects download. Sometimes the download isn't shared locally, but the upload usually is.

LLU ADSL however depends entirely on the ISP as to what the contention ratio is and therefore how likely congestion is. ISPs do exist that provide 1:1 contention (ie you have your connection speed 'allocated' and not shared with anyone else) at competitive prices. With such ISPs, the only problem you'll have - unless you have a poor quality line (BT's fault) - is if some muppet breaks a fibre link somewhere.


It's all swings and roundabouts - VM is generally fine if you have the top tier package. LLU ADSL is usually fairly good, but that will depend on the ISP. The poor sods who are stuck with non-LLU '8 meg, my arse' packages because they happen to live somewhere without cable/LLU have to lump it unfortunately.

Another thing to point out with the '8 meg' packages is that they've started to falsely blame line quality for not being able to get the full speed. BT now reckon that the line where I am atm can only handle up to 6mbit. I know for a fact it can do over 7.5mbit, because it did when the 8bit service was first enabled at this exchange. Now they have a lot more people using it here, the connection (not the line) just can't get that fast anymore.

Hey guys.
Me again. Looks like my days on LFS are numbered. I can get on my teams server directly between 8 and 10 in the morning then my connection slows without warning at a random time after that. I can't connect to the master server in game most of the time and when I do it says however many, no reply.

Speedtest shows a ping of 38ms but won't go past that and do the download test, and ping test gave me this



59% Data loss! WTF is that all about?! :something

Gave sky a ring there was nothing they could do about it.

Any ideas?

Lister