Poor?, really?
It isn't to do with taxation. If Britain is downgraded because the markets lose confidence then the cost of borrowing money will sky rocket and that's disastrous. And it's those markets that are bailing us out at the moment. And remember it's those taxed Billions that pay for your treasured NHS so don't be too snobby!
Look, I agree with Lib-Dems on issues like ID Cards, Civil Liberties (though CLegg just squirmed about a question about CCTV which suggests he wouldn't make reforms as far as we would like). But Tory MP David Davis has also expressed his views more than most on those issues. These issues aren't exclusive to the Libs
But economically speaking the (proper non-PR) Tories simply have a better understanding of the situation out of the three (The tories are much weaker than they once were). I think a Lib-Con would be good as long as the Libs admitted they know jack-squat about economics. And also there stance on Europe is just plain potty! Having the Euro and a 'Euro Defence Force' and more EU laws and regs... err... no thank you Mr CLegg!!
If Labour got in... then... well.. I don't even want to think about that!
Isnt the Lib Dem's proposed chancellor guy a fully qualified economist with city experience? Economy isn't my main voting topic so I may have facts muddled but I remember something about that and the Labour chancellor being a lawyer with no previous experience.
I've seen years of highly qualified economists deny anything was wrong with the economy so I really take with a pinch of salt what economists say or do! The fact Vince Cable is a qualified economist yet supports the Euro (which was, is, and will be a continuing disaster) kinda proves my point. had we gone with cable's wish of joining the Euro we would be, as part of the Eurozone, be paying for Greece right now. We still are through the IMF but to a lesser extent.
Most economists who have studied in England are very Keynesian and thus are very predictable. We didn't hear them warn about the impending crisis yet they seem to have all the answers now funnily enough. That's mainly because Keynesian economists win favour with governments because they support governmental action (interference depending on how you look at it) and thus get all the funding and governmental economy jobs. BIG business like this thinking too as it helps support monopolies through various government subsidies and regulations which mean small business finds it hard to compete at all
Vince is a very successful man who I do respect but his party will not be a good thing if in power.
The less said about Labour the better
yes simple maths mate. If I double the amount money in the world your money is worth half as much, makign you half as wealthy as you were before hence 'poorer'. It's what the definition of inflation is. Just check gold prices if you don't think your money isn't devaluing at this very minute. How far will; £10 of fuel get you? How much food will £10 get you? Not much!
I suggest you read up on your history
Poorer?, as a whole maybe (not me personally, I've never been as well off as I am now), but poor?, not by a long chalk.
I guess growing up as one of thatchers children, on (and below) the breadline gives me a different outlook on things like poverty.
What you need to remember is that people are allowed different views, your view isn't the be all and end all.
I guess growing up as one of thatchers children, on (and below) the breadline gives me a different outlook on things like poverty.
What you need to remember is that people are allowed different views, your view isn't the be all and end all.
And theres no need to talk to people in such a smug, condescending way either, you'd probrably find you'd take a lot less flak from everyone if you gave it up.
By all means have your opinion, but don't try to stand on some kind of pedestal and talk down to everyone else.
By all means have your opinion, but don't try to stand on some kind of pedestal and talk down to everyone else.
Meh, it's funny, I came into this thread thinking it might be nice to find out some random peoples opinions on the election, but guess I should have learned by now. I'm almost embarrassed to be British after reading all this bullshit.
Edit: And definitely stupider.
Edit: And definitely stupider.
Not it doesnt, not even remotely. The only reason for keeping the pound stirling is patriotic pride in an empire that died when America charged us for the equipment we needed for Russia to win some pesky war 60 years ago. The empire is dead people.
Whether we have the Euro or not doesn't decide where we send our money. The party we vote for decides where we send our money. Well, that and the EU - which is unelected, and unaccountable - but the EU is mostly focused on paying itself money like the ludicrous £1m a term expenses claims for train fare and accomodation.
jeezz resorting to the 'everyone has their own opinion'. If that were true no one would bother debating.
Let's actually look at the situation. You were a child of the 80s and life was tough. Do you really blame her or should you actually look at the end of the 70s when the country was bankrupt (we went to the IMF), we had mass strikes, and power blackouts. The winter of discontent ring any bells? The country was in a huge mess.
What planet must you be on to think to fix that mess that somehow you were going to live the high life. It will always come back to bite... always. And let me get one thing straight here one half of my family is Gypsy so please don't tell me that you understand poverty when you haven't even come CLOSE to what real poverty and persecution is like. The 80s was tough... but not that tough!
The country needed fixing in the 80s and sensible people realised you need to go through pain. You need to absorb the excesses of a government that thinks tax spend tax spend tax spend tax spend... oh we're broke is somehow caring.
If the Tories come in on Thursday life is going to be tough. The market in the UK will have to correct itself and we have to bring our deficit down down down down. Now you can either go Tory and get the nasty bit out of the way (and it will be very nasty) or you can go Lab/Lib and blindly put off what we all know is coming. And by putting off the real recession we should have had when this whole thing started we are in a bigger mess than we could have ever imagined.
Now I do sound like a Tory here but in reality they aren't going anywhere near far enough to fix the problems
Have you noticed that George Osborne has been conspicuously absent from the Tory front lines during this election campaign? It's because he's a liability and the public don't trust him.
Especially not since he bought two DVDs of himself debating value for taxpayers money, which he then claimed as an expense thus get ... payer to buy them for him.
Osborne's accounts are pretty much a masterclass in how to dodge taxes and turn what's supposed to be an expense account into a private property portfolio worth over a million pounds. Just the sort of perks that the city supporters of the Conservative party have always enjoyed, at the expense of the average taxpayer who ends up footing the government's bills.
And you'd trust him with the country's finances over Vince Cable?
Keeping the pound isn't about patriotic pride. Keeping the pound means the British currency can react and change to market conditions by increasing or decreasing in value. Some of the problems in Greece are down to the fact their currency hasn't been allowed to be de-valued easing some of their troubles. Having your own currency has a very important economic function and Greece are stuck with the Euro
If you don't have a diverse currency market you are literally giving whoever has the printing press an overwhelming amount of power because the man with the printing press decides whether he can take all the money in your bank without even you having a choice in the matter.
This is the nature of fiat currencies however. They are very volatile and manipulatable.
I don't 'trust' any of them.
Stirling is a fiat currency these days, Labour did away with the Gold specie.
Regarding your other point, I understand all the Euro states can mint coins and print the notes? I pressume there's some kind of system behind it - i've never been much interested personally.
Greece would be dealing with runaway inflation right now if they hadn't switched to the Euro, don't talk such bollocks. And our deficit looks a lot like theirs does, so you can hardly blame a currency for it.
I would like to see a return to gold standard to be quite honest. But the politicians don't like that. It means they can't have artificially low interest rates which create housing bubbles which gives people a false sense of wealth which means the politician gets re-elected because they've abolished 'boom and bust'
The European Central Bank has the power to set interest rates as well print money if need be (aka Quantitative Easing). By printing I mean literally creating it from thin air. I find it funny no one in the UK has battered an eye-lid with our QE as it directly takes wealth from people's bank accounts and puts it into the pockets of whoever is printing it.
I don't like fiat currencies but I'd rather be attached to the Pound than the Euro.
Also if Greece never entered the Euro they wouldn't have gone on a spending splurge like they did which put them in this mess and forcing hard working Germans to pay off their economic mis-management.
Are you suggesting that the Greek government didnt get their head around the price of bread and overpaid because they didn't know what a Euro was worth? *stares at you blankly*
If the number of pirates hadn't fallen so substantially there wouldn't be any global warming.
Heres a good way for people to understand if they have no idea who to vote: http://imagechan.com/images/55 ... 4c8066b2a344ff84692ad.jpg
If you're not committing any crimes then you shouldn't have anything to worry about, but coming from someone who seems somewhat of a conspiricy theorist, I can't say I'm suprised.
Lib Dems seem like the only party who haven't used slagging off the other parties in their campaign I still wouldn't vote them though.
since the DEB this is no longer true, for some offences you are now guilty, without trial, for crimes other people committed. The judge jury and executione is a piece of software which estimates your possible guilt.
That old addage used to be true, but unfortunately the ever growing surveillance as we ebb furter from a democracy into a police state has rendered it null and void.
The Labour regime has already implemented laws tighter than China and practices used by the Stazi, and it's getting worse, with more laws coming and practice catching up with the laws already written.
Do you want your post openened? How about the dissolution of parliament altogether (use of the wash up was bad enough, but Labour have twice tried to dissolve parliament altogether).
None of what I say alludes to any conspiracy theories.
So called developed and smart nations are not immune to dictators and tyrannies. Hitler was actually real you know!
I ask you one question
Would say say the same (aint got nowt to hide so why worry) to the Jewish community circa Europe 1920?
Somehow I don't think so! Germany was boom time in the 20s (just like we were over the last decade) and many thought the crisis and bad times were over. A lot of the Jewish didn't have anything to hide... until they suddenly did. Just like they were naive... so are you. No one has anything to hide... until the day you do (liek your religions or ethnic background or sexuality)! Millions have people have lost their lives because of what or who they are... so have some respect. The aint got nowt to hide argument is downright disrespectful to those who died to protect your freedom.
There is a difference between adhering to the rule of law and protecting yourself against future mis-use of things like CCTV, databases etc...
This isn't about conspiracies... this is about learning from history and using common sense. Any other view IMO is one of pure arrogance thinking we as a country are immune from such things
Here's a good bit of writing (if a little emotive) on why you should vote to keep the Tories out.
And here's a bulle pointed list of some reasons not to vote Labour (or Conservatives who agreed and supported all the key issues)
http://lizw.livejournal.com/551585.html
http://lizw.livejournal.com/551585.html
@Crashgates link....
While most people can understand the morality (or lack of it) written about in that piece, there is a great(er?) number of people, those who are generally more affluent and haven't had to (or are likely to) endure hardship like those written about, that would state that is exactly what needs to happen.
If the cons manage to wangle their way into power come Friday morning, I'll be seriously looking into emigratting to a different country.
The Lib-Dems will have my vote tomorrow, I couldn't vote for any of the others.
While most people can understand the morality (or lack of it) written about in that piece, there is a great(er?) number of people, those who are generally more affluent and haven't had to (or are likely to) endure hardship like those written about, that would state that is exactly what needs to happen.
If the cons manage to wangle their way into power come Friday morning, I'll be seriously looking into emigratting to a different country.
The Lib-Dems will have my vote tomorrow, I couldn't vote for any of the others.
2010 British General Election
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