Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

This is not true. I've had very clean races on that combo in the SR FOX league and the test event of the LLWS. The problem is that the LLSS has full grid+some very complicated procedures(rolling starts, formation laps), which reduces or completely scrap the gap between the cars several times a race.

Concerning the drivers' behaviour... Its the drivers' job to try to adapt themselves to the combo, not the admins' job to pick the easiest possible tracks. If the drivers can't drive 5-6 laps without rolling on a kerb, well, too bad for them then.

Actually, I've not been involved in any incidents neither in that race, neither in the Round 4 of the LLWS. Why? Just because I decided to get a bit slower than my optimal pace, and to not try to go near the other drivers, especially the divebombers. This always worked out

I've never had a clean race at any Fern Bay combo because the chicanes are so incredibly bad. Forgetting for a second that driver behavior can go a long way to improve the racing, Fern Bay is so unforgiving of mistakes (read: dangerous) it can easily ruin half a dozen innocent drivers' races. One guy clips the tires in the first chicane, race over for half the cars behind him. One guy clips the tires in the second chicane, there is literally nowhere to go for the cars behind. It's terrible.

Think about it this way... if it were a real circuit, it would have been bulldozed or reconfigured years ago. It's not practical for us to "bulldoze" it (remove it from the calendar, we don't have enough tracks to replace Fern Bay with), but we can reconfigure it.

@GreyBull [CHA]: I can't agree more with you.

Fernbay Black is actually a pretty nice track which challenges the driver and you can win a lot of time with making no mistakes. The track isn't the problem why so many drivers fail here.

Plus, I can't be that some driver join the server and ask for race setups two hours before the start. Already at this point, I was thinking that this race will be a mayhem. Why? Just because you should feel comfortable with your setup - especially if you know that this is one of the hardest tracks of LFS.

If it were a real circuit it'd be used for banger racing and not much else.

That said, I have a great time lapping the FO8 here solo, and I'm hoping tomorrow the field has a chance to get strung out so the chaos is minimized.

Quote from Feuerdrache :

Plus, I can't be that some driver join the server and ask for race setups two hours before the start. Already at this point, I was thinking that this race will be a mayhem. Why? Just because you should feel comfortable with your setup - especially if you know that this is one of the hardest tracks of LFS.

No doubt about that. That should be an instant ban for the event. Maybe more than one.

Quote from tmehlinger :

I've never had a clean race at any Fern Bay combo because the chicanes are so incredibly bad. Forgetting for a second that driver behavior can go a long way to improve the racing, Fern Bay is so unforgiving of mistakes (read: dangerous) it can easily ruin half a dozen innocent drivers' races. One guy clips the tires in the first chicane, race over for half the cars behind him. One guy clips the tires in the second chicane, there is literally nowhere to go for the cars behind. It's terrible.

Think about it this way... if it were a real circuit, it would have been bulldozed or reconfigured years ago. It's not practical for us to "bulldoze" it (remove it from the calendar, we don't have enough tracks to replace Fern Bay with), but we can reconfigure it.

That's true... Unfortunately there's no way to modify those 2 sections, so we can either:

i) try something with AutoX, but I doubt we'd create something decent.
ii) forgive overtaking in these 2 zones with endless local yellow flags, Macau style(:schwitz. Wouldn't sort up the issues of people clipping tyres on their own, but at least would stop people from trying going 2 wide there, something that end up in tear 95% of the time.
iii) Drop Fern Bay tracks. But this is in contradiction with all the moaners complaining for more diversity trackwise in league racing.

Then, there's iiii): Try to make everyone understand that those chicanes are like that and that we can't change them in any proper way, and make them realise that it's in their own interrest to be half careful in this zone, and ask them to train a bit so they can see what to do/not to do in these corners. I know it's probably not the easiest solution, but it remains the most reasonable one. I hope you do realise that if people kept reacting like iii) in real life, we'd have only Tilkedromes in the main motorsports championships... Is that something you realy want to have?This is why I'm up to keep any kind of difficulties in the calendar, no matter how many people rolls/crashs/get off the track on their own just because they tried to do something they didn't have to do.

The track is brilliant and got nothing to do with crashes.
It s just a lack of practice and imaturity of some racers who mess up the racing on this track.

Race 1 Car 51 should get a nice long sit out for causing that whole wreck.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

i) try something with AutoX, but I doubt we'd create something decent.

pik_d and I came up with one for the second chicane that was actually pretty good. Didn't constrict the track too much and added a good overtaking opportunity. I've got no ideas for the first one... maybe castrate anyone who tries to pass there and flies through the tires.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

ii) forgive overtaking in these 2 zones with endless local yellow flags, Macau style(:schwitz. Wouldn't sort up the issues of people clipping tyres on their own, but at least would stop people from trying going 2 wide there, something that end up in tear 95% of the time.

DSR tried this in Road to Formula 1 and it was a PR/officiating disaster.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

iii) Drop Fern Bay tracks. But this is in contradiction with all the moaners complaining for more diversity trackwise in league racing.

You pretty much nailed it, everyone will flip out and complain.

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

Then, there's iiii): Try to make everyone understand that those chicanes are like that, and make them realise that it's in their own interrest to be half careful in this zone, and ask them to train a bit so they can see what to do/not to do in these corners. I know it's probably not the easiest solution, but it remains the most reasonable one. I hope you do realise that if people kept reacting like iii) in real life, we'd have only Tilkedromes in the main motorsports championships... Is that something you realy want to have?This is why I'm up to keep any kind of difficulties in the calendar, no matter how many people rolls/crashs/get off the track on their own just because they tried to do something they didn't have to do.

Unfortunately, it seems like there are only a handful of people playing LFS that really "get" it. I could see very clearly from Remote that half the drivers in the race had hardly any sense of self-preservation and even less consideration for the other drivers on the track. They see a gap and go for it without thinking about all the other things going on (approaching a stack of tires, two slower cars ahead, another car pulling alongside from behind, whatever). I don't think penalties are the answer short of actually banning people for stupid moves, but that runs the risk of cutting the grid size down too much. No dumb move goes unpunished, but there are at least a few drivers who appear to be mentally impervious to the consequences, and they show up for the next race and do the same stupid shit.

Quote from CARRERA GT :

honestly this hasn t change, same disepointement is the last round and very imature move you did Salo.
It wasn t neccecairy, you could of waited, i was in the inside and had the lead over you.
This is twice now that my race has been ruin from a Zoum racer.
What do you have agains me?
Why can t you be patient in races and have to destroy people races?
Since this league started, ive spended more time righting protest than actually racing.
I just hope that will not carryon that way, otherwise it would be a waste of my time to carryon.

Well first of all, I can assure you that none of us has anything against you. We also have to remember the undeniable fact that the server was lagging more than my deceased granpa during his trips to the toilet. I tried my best to avoid you but you ran wider than I expected and therefore I hit you from the outside. I assume I could take the blame for that, but please, there's absolutely no reason for you to cry... cheers

Quote from siirtomissä :

Well first of all, I can assure you that none of us has anything against you. We also have to remember the undeniable fact that the server was lagging more than my deceased granpa during his trips to the toilet. I tried my best to avoid you but you ran wider than I expected and therefore I hit you from the outside. I assume I could take the blame for that, but please, there's absolutely no reason for you to cry... cheers

So is it because of the server lagging that you hit me or urr lack of understanding that in this corner u cannot overtake from the outside when u got a car in the inside especially when you behind?
If you did understood that, you would of lifted a bit and tryed to get me on the staight.
The only reason you didn t have time to react is that you were to close trying to overtake me in a corner from the outside when it was impossible.
Im not just crying blood, im also fuming and had enought to race with guys who doesn t know the rules of gravity and respect on the track.
I just don t want my races to get ruined by others so pls becareful next time and try to be more and patient in the future, then you ll have more time to react.

Quote from CARRERA GT :

So is it because of the server lagging that you hit me or urr lack of understanding that in this corner u cannot overtake from the outside when u got a car in the inside especially when you behind?
If you did understood that, you would of lifted a bit and tryed to get me on the staight.
The only reason you didn t have time to react is that you were to close trying to overtake me in a corner from the outside when it was impossible.
Im not just crying blood, im also fuming and had enought to race with guys who doesn t know the rules of gravity and respect on the track.
I just don t want my races to get ruined by others so pls becareful next time and try to be more and patient in the future, then you ll have more time to react.

As a matter of fact, I had no intentions to overtake you in that corner at that time. And yes, the lagging server was a major filament to the outcome of our battle. And the problem never was the lack of time for me to react, so don't try to make me look like a fool with your outrageos accusations.
But as I said before, the fact remains that a part of the blame can and should be pointed at me. But I wish you the best of luck in the upcoming races

Quote from tmehlinger :

Quote from GreyBull [CHA] :

That's true... Unfortunately there's no way to modify those 2 sections, so we can either:

i) try something with AutoX, but I doubt we'd create something decent.

pik_d and I came up with one for the second chicane that was actually pretty good. Didn't constrict the track too much and added a good overtaking opportunity. I've got no ideas for the first one... maybe castrate anyone who tries to pass there and flies through the tires.

The layout is here for any interested. It's for FE2 but if you rename it to FE4 it works just the same.

Quote from siirtomissä :

As a matter of fact, I had no intentions to overtake you in that corner at that time. And yes, the lagging server was a major filament to the outcome of our battle. And the problem never was the lack of time for me to react, so don't try to make me look like a fool with your outrageos accusations.
But as I said before, the fact remains that a part of the blame can and should be pointed at me. But I wish you the best of luck in the upcoming races

What i find outrageous with you is that you haven t got the manner to say at least sorry and im not trying to make no one look like a fool here, you just have to realise that you had nothing to do there when you crasht me, fullstop.
If you say that it wasn t you re intention to overtake me there, so why was you so close? U had all the staight before that corner to think ahead, enought time for you to know what to do before the corner.
Didn t you knows that this is one of the must Evil corner of this track?
And just to remind you, if you watch the replay closely i wasn t in the corner yet, i was just going to enter it but you didn t give me no chance.
One more thing you have to know, i never went wide and you never tryed to avoid me, you went into me and that s is a massive difference.
So, stop saying none sense and making excuses for urr mistakes and try to improve you racing with others on the track in the future.
That will be better for you and others.

Quote from pik_d :

The layout is here for any interested. It's for FE2 but if you rename it to FE4 it works just the same.

Seems to be interresting, especially for STD, although it won't reduce the problems created by people clipping the tyres on the outside... Except that the incidents will be caused at a slower speed of course

_____

E: Just a suggestion, but what about something in the sporting code preventing the competitors to put another car on its wheels on purpose?

Slow accidents look funnier... i vote for slow chicanes

On to the race... i got reported for spinning... -.- I span, i did not purposfully sit on the racing line to smite some other persons race. I span, tryed to control it and found myself on the racing line in 6th gear, no drive and by the time i started shifting down BAMB someone hits me... im not angry at them. And its all just driver error and racing incidents, :L IMO very few genuinly idiotic occurancies took place. Just my two cence.

Meh, good race, server was laggy, as was that of the GT3 cup so i blame 500 servers

Thanks alll,

Oscar.

For the numberless time there was a participant who obviously doesn't know the rules. Since last year's 500 practice sessions this has been going on and not gotten any better. In the LLWS South City Grand Prix 06 J. Teien would even pass 2 or 3 at a time, get reported but of course there would be no measures taken - I will spare the critics on the responsibles as they have proven often enough what they are. So now this kid comes here and says I didnt leave enough space. Look again. At the point you come to a halt I am leaving the biggest gap in the grid. I will not do screenshots or file reports as I really don't give a damn. I am here to have some nice racing. I don't care about positions since half a decade. It's about priciples. I will not tolerate random morons getting on my nerves. Next time something similar happens I will do whatever I want.

------------------------------

Hope someone can explain this to me: In lap 5, entering the first corner, 51 J. Törmälä suddenly finds himself sideways sliding and touches me slightly. I was strongly assuming it must something strange and looking at the replay I got the confirmation.

The only possibilities I can think of would be lag or another case of those mesh-bugs (or whatever it's called).

Quote from SCA-F1 :

From the protest thread:




LOLWAS, the irony of you criticising driving standards.

a) You're not involved, you should know that, and if anything, you've just reduced the chances of a punishment.

b) Nevertheless, my argument was that the field were only just approaching S2 at the time, I was on totally the other side of the circuit. OK, misjudgements can occur, and the characteristics of my actions remain the same, but no danger was present, what else could happen? In the unlikely circumstances of a lag crash, there would be plenty of time to alert the drivers of any additional stationery cars up ahead, whether they're upside down, or too damaged to continue.

Not to take it away, yes it was foolish of me, yes, it probably is cheating, but the sporting code doesn't suggest a precedent that this is cheating, it could come to common sense, whatever, my race was ruined because you're an incompetent driver, and don't realise that if you're following a car closely behind, you lose grip in the corners. Had you not been such an awful driver, we wouldn't have been in that position of me helping my helpless teamy, even though that is irrelevant.

Even I am not impressed by this.

Quote from CSF :

Even I am not impressed by this.

me too

Quote from SCA-F1 :

From the protest thread:




LOLWAS, the irony of you criticising driving standards.

a) You're not involved, you should know that, and if anything, you've just reduced the chances of a punishment.

b) Nevertheless, my argument was that the field were only just approaching S2 at the time, I was on totally the other side of the circuit. OK, misjudgements can occur, and the characteristics of my actions remain the same, but no danger was present, what else could happen? In the unlikely circumstances of a lag crash, there would be plenty of time to alert the drivers of any additional stationery cars up ahead, whether they're upside down, or too damaged to continue.

Not to take it away, yes it was foolish of me, yes, it probably is cheating, but the sporting code doesn't suggest a precedent that this is cheating, it could come to common sense, whatever, my race was ruined because you're an incompetent driver, and don't realise that if you're following a car closely behind, you lose grip in the corners. Had you not been such an awful driver, we wouldn't have been in that position of me helping my helpless teamy, even though that is irrelevant.

also you drove OFF the track just to help boothy out, and now you think the chances that you will be punished are reduced?

Quote from SCA-F1 :

From the protest thread:




LOLWAS, the irony of you criticising driving standards.

a) You're not involved, you should know that, and if anything, you've just reduced the chances of a punishment.

b) Nevertheless, my argument was that the field were only just approaching S2 at the time, I was on totally the other side of the circuit. OK, misjudgements can occur, and the characteristics of my actions remain the same, but no danger was present, what else could happen? In the unlikely circumstances of a lag crash, there would be plenty of time to alert the drivers of any additional stationery cars up ahead, whether they're upside down, or too damaged to continue.

Not to take it away, yes it was foolish of me, yes, it probably is cheating, but the sporting code doesn't suggest a precedent that this is cheating, it could come to common sense, whatever, my race was ruined because you're an incompetent driver, and don't realise that if you're following a car closely behind, you lose grip in the corners. Had you not been such an awful driver, we wouldn't have been in that position of me helping my helpless teamy, even though that is irrelevant.

Oh dear oh dear oh dear Mr Cattell,

You are soooooooooooo far in the wrong with this one.

For one you cannot blame Nathan Lamothe for the crash as in the feature race he had been forced to retire on the first racing lap.

SECONDLY Michael Booth lost control on his own accord clipping too much kerb as he went through and couldn't counter it.

THIRDLY you drive off the track and racing line after the SAFETY CAR DEPLOYED signs appear on screen. In my opinion it's cheating and very immature of you to attempt to flip your team mate back over. Many of my team mates flipped in the race to, you didn't see me trying to get them back on all four wheels?

Disappointed with the actions from someone I thought was a decent guy..

i think frag is right also :/

I love how only Epic Racing guys are flaming Cattle here when I'm sorry, but you were all acting stupidly and dangerously towards me (except Liane) all evening and then telling me I'm an idiot and it's my fault...

But yes, Simon, you're in the wrong.

Quote from Wilko868 :

I love how only Epic Racing guys are flaming Cattle here when I'm sorry, but you were all acting stupidly and dangerously towards me (except Liane) all evening and then telling me I'm an idiot and it's my fault...

But yes, Simon, you're in the wrong.

I'm sorry but how did many of us do anything "dangerous" towards you. I don't remember you having an incident with any of the Epic Racing drivers?

Sure the race was a mess and there was mistakes and mayhem all over the track but that was expected because the track is high speed and with two fast chicanes but you make it sound like Epic racing is out to get you and Cattell?

Quote from Wilko868 :

I love how only Epic Racing guys are flaming Cattle here when I'm sorry, but you were all acting stupidly and dangerously towards me (except Liane) all evening and then telling me I'm an idiot and it's my fault...

But yes, Simon, you're in the wrong.

Regardless of team I would have said he in the wrong Chris, and since when did I 'act stupidly and dangerously' towards you through the race? and when did I call you an idiot and claim its your fault.

Not every driver acted in that way through the race and overtaking chances Chris. Don't single the whole of ER out for one or two incidents that occurred with you.