I was just debunking Intrepid's statement that Dave C is considered a toff because he has aspirations for change, and not because he's a rich white guy who is related to the queen and went to Eton. I have nothing against Eton, if I was a rich toff I'd send my kids there. I just wonder how long I'll have to wait before someone from my old school gets elected...

Quote from pacesetter :

I don't know too much about your opinions, but may I just throw in that Tony Blair was privately educated, but yet still Labour.

... and Darling went to a private school in Edinburgh, and the only person in Labour's government who had a proper job was Alan Johnson, so really, there's not much difference between either of the parties.

Quote from Intrepid :

Aspiration of the individual is a core conservative value.

So says the propaganda. Or more like, only the wealthy are allowed to have aspirations, everyone else can get ****ed. Of course the friendly front of the Conservatives won't talk about that much.

Quote from 5haz :

So says the propaganda. Or more like, only the wealthy are allowed to have aspirations, everyone else can get ****ed. Of course the friendly front of the Conservatives don't talk about that much.

Granted the Tories just the best of a bad bunch, but this idea you can only make if you're rich is nonsense. Labour, through my own experience of being self-employed and coming from a background which most would consider 'low-income', have made it very hard to do anything of any merit in the UK. Hopefully now people will some sort of get up and go will have more freedom to get shizzle done.

Quote from Intrepid :

Granted the Tories just the best of a bad bunch, but this idea you can only make if you're rich is nonsense. Labour, through my own experience of being self-employed and coming from a background which most would consider 'low-income', have made it very hard to do anything of any merit in the UK. Hopefully now people will some sort of get up and go will have more freedom to get shizzle done.

One persons freedom usually comes at the expense of someone elses.

Quote from Becky Rose :

One persons freedom usually comes at the expense of someone elses.

Yes, you have to infringe on someone's core freedom of ownership to pay for the NHS, benefits, the BBC etc... etc....

Quote from Intrepid :

Yes, you have to infringe on someone's core freedom of ownership to pay for the NHS, benefits, the BBC etc... etc....

Interesting how you had to pad the word freedom out with very specific caveats there.

BBC = television licence.
NHS = national insurance.

Both have their own special taxes, one of them is optional. The other is in your own best interest. Because despite how much you hate it, the NHS is actually very good indeed, even though it has issues it's still in amongst the best healthcare providers in the world. Much better than any country with less social involvement in medicine.

So when are we going to talk about go karts?

Quote from Becky Rose :

Interesting how you had to pad the word freedom out with very specific caveats there.

BBC = television licence.
NHS = national insurance.

Both have their own special taxes, one of them is optional. The other is in your own best interest. Because despite how much you hate it, the NHS is actually very good indeed, even though it has issues it's still in amongst the best healthcare providers in the world. Much better than any country with less social involvement in medicine.

Having spent quite a lot of my life receiving various NHS treatments I wouldn't go as far as saying that. But this is a subject we have gone over a million times.

The licence isn't optional though is it now Becky, and thankfully TV as well as the BBC is slowly becoming a redundant form of media anyway. Though no doubt the BBC cronies are working hard for an internet licence to pay for 'public service' internet. The DEB is part of that whole nonsense, that same school of thinking! But you're against that sort of thing though Becky, aren't you?

Either way this whole coalition stuff will undoubtedly end in tears

I love how some love to turn the NHS into some malevolent political organisation hellbent on taking away all your freedoms. For christs sake, its purpose it to take sick people and make them better, it may be inconsistant and in desperate need of some changes, but its intentions are good ones.

Quote from Intrepid :

Labour, through my own experience of being self-employed and coming from a background which most would consider 'low-income', have made it very hard to do anything of any merit in the UK.

Could you please provide concrete examples of how the Labour government has impeded your ability to do anything of "merit" during the last 13 years. I would be interested to know exactly what actions you were planning that you were subsequently unable to follow through on.

Quote from DarkTimes :

Could you please provide concrete examples of how the Labour government has impeded your ability to do anything of "merit" during the last 13 years. I would be interested to know exactly what actions you were planning that you were subsequently unable to follow through on.

Ask Becky about the DEB, she'll tell you how. Also, the new pub licensing act hit me as a musician with the scrapping of the two in a bar rule. It's very difficult to play a gig with a partner in a pub if it's suddenly deemed illegal. I learnt very quickly back then Labour's intent of bring in more and more regulation wasting tax money.

Another recent addition - car scrappage scheme. When it was announced I knew instantly it was a headline grabber without any economic grounding. New car sales rose of course but what wasn't reported was the fact

1. A lot of manufactures increased prices of new cars before scrappage scheme nulling any so-called savings
2. Second hand car prices rose dramatically.
3. Used car salesman were put in the shit
4. A ton of decent cars were scrapped!

So being someone on the look out for a second hand car and didn't want to have to waste a shit load of money it hit me pretty hard (as well as anyone wanting a 2nd hand car at the time).

So some quick and brief examples of many

1 DEB
2. Two in a bar scrapped
3. Car scrappage

I could go on but wouldn't want to bore you and really those three examples are only minor in comparison to the absolute gigantic mess they've made of the economy.

So you campaign against the NHS and yet don't have private services?

And the telly licence IS optional. Why do so many thick people assume telly is a right? I don't have a telly and I'm perfectly happy. The only reason to have a telly is to "see what's on". I see all the quality shows just fine online and I don't ever just switch the telly on to watch some aimless drivel.

When I lived with my folks they come home they switch the telly on and then they moan about it until bed time.

Not optional my sweet little hot ass.

As for the last government, they've sytematically destroyed our freedoms and ebbed us toward a police state. However unless you work in the Internet DEB only effects your hobby, ditto 2 in a bar.

I thought the original question related to you as a "business owner", not your hobby stuff.

Wooo! Cameron is the PM ) Happy

Quote from Electric Eye :

Wooo! Cameron is the PM ) Happy

So what would you have - Titanic or Avatar?

Quote from Becky Rose :

One persons freedom usually comes at the expense of someone elses.

c'mon... therefore you have to cut the freedoms of all? It certainly is not zero-sum game.

btw. It is my own crusade against zero-sum game common belief In fact, zero-sum games are quite uncommon so I don't really understand so wide popularity of the concept

Quote :

David Ritter, writing for the Australian Broadcasting Co ... opinion website The Drum, labelled the new Prime Minister “a quintessential example of the British hereditary elite"

That sums it up quite succinctly. Ironic that Cameron ran his campaign under a banner of "change"...

Quote :

Le Soir, a newspaper based in Brussels, home of the EU, expressed reservations at the Thatcherite political views of William Hague, the new Foreign Secretary, who the paper described as “an intellectual with sardonic humour and advanced baldness”.

Lightens the mood a bit.

Quote from AndRand :

btw. It is my own crusade against zero-sum game common belief In fact, zero-sum games are quite uncommon so I don't really understand so wide popularity of the concept

I play French Tarot

you're quite right though - but hate Labour as I did I don't disagree with every piece of legislation they introduced, I tend to take an issue by issue approach to most things which is why there's some stuff I almost agree with Intrepid on. On the whole however, both Intrepid and Labour both stand for things I've come to despise. Not in a personal hatred way, but in regards the policies they stand for.

For me neither Labour nor the Conservatives represent something I am proud of, and I wish to appologise to the rest of the world on Britains behalf. If I could change it I would.

I'm curious, so I have a quick question for y'all.

With all the vocal opposition to the tories on here, is it conservatism in principle that you consider the anti-christ, or just the Tory party in it's current state?

Quote from STROBE :

I'm curious, so I have a quick question for y'all.

With all the vocal opposition to the tories on here, is it conservatism in principle that you consider the anti-christ, or just the Tory party in it's current state?

I find very little about them to be redeeming, whilst I do have some agreement with a small section of their manifesto on the whole I dislike. Additionally I find many of the views expressed by Conservatives to be abhorrent.

I have a letter here from my local Conservative MP (because I write to and campaign to mine for civil liberties and against injustices, which he consistently holds far right views on), and it makes for dissapointing reading and shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the particular issue in question.

Further, from a personal point of view, the Conservatives own LGBT group put out a statement a month before the election to not vote Conservative and then disbanded itself following what it described as systematic homophobia within the Conservative party.

Quote from STROBE :

I'm curious, so I have a quick question for y'all.

With all the vocal opposition to the tories on here, is it conservatism in principle that you consider the anti-christ, or just the Tory party in it's current state?

For me it's the fact that the Torries seem to care little for anything north of the Border. Previous history has taught (and showed) me that and I don't see anything in the current Tory set up that would suggest otherwise. The fact that the Lib dems have teamed up with the Torries has not gone down well with some up here either.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

For me it's the fact that the Torries seem to care little for anything north of the Border. Previous history has taught (and showed) me that and I don't see anything in the current Tory set up that would suggest otherwise. The fact that the Lib dems have teamed up with the Torries has not gone down well with some up here either.

Maybe it's time for Scotland to split from England then?

And today I read the news that my suspisions of the Torys have more than a little validity as they've just appointed Theresa May as, and check this out, Minsiter for Equality.

If you where still in any doubt over the Conservatives position on civil liberty issues, then surely the appointment of the woman who's consistently voted against establishing equality for gays throughout her career as an MP tells it all.

She voted against equalising the age of consent for gays, she twice voted against gay couples being allowed to adopt, she voted against lesbians being allowed to use fertility clinics/services and she voted against section 28. She didn't bother voting on the Gender Recognition act and only voted in favour of civil unions because the Conservative party was trying to appease the pink vote at the time (the whole front bench voted in favour of it), despite the Conservatives bargaining down the right to marry.

She is the most ill-equipped person to serve as a "Minister for Equality", holds prejudicial views and will not be able to function in any humanitarian role without leaving behind a legacy of hypocracy.

To me this spells out everything about Conservative attitudes towards civil liberties.

To lighten the mood a little, try putting 'David Cameron side profile' into Google Images.

Quote from Becky Rose :

And today I read the news that my suspisions of the Torys have more than a little validity as they've just appointed Theresa May as, and check this out, Minsiter for Equality.

If you where still in any doubt over the Conservatives position on civil liberty issues, then surely the appointment of the woman who's consistently voted against establishing equality for gays throughout her career as an MP tells it all.

She voted against equalising the age of consent for gays, she twice voted against gay couples being allowed to adopt, she voted against lesbians being allowed to use fertility clinics/services and she voted against section 28. She didn't bother voting on the Gender Recognition act and only voted in favour of civil unions because the Conservative party was trying to appease the pink vote at the time (the whole front bench voted in favour of it), despite the Conservatives bargaining down the right to marry.

She is the most ill-equipped person to serve as a "Minister for Equality", holds prejudicial views and will not be able to function in any humanitarian role without leaving behind a legacy of hypocracy.

To me this spells out everything about Conservative attitudes towards civil liberties.

The fact there is a 'Minister for Equality' is even more laughable. Also, how can anyone be a Minister For Women?