Quote from RiseAgainstMe! :

Unfortunately it had to happen on the last lap, which makes it a little bit ambiguous as to the legality of the move.

Yep, and that's the problem. Race officials announced the SC was coming in, the track was announced clear and green flags were shown at the last turn as Ross Brawn's interview shows above.

Ross Brawn just said something and i think he has a point though.. The lights should've remained yellow, instead they went off and green flags started waving..

It seems Charlie Whiting has cocked up the finishing procedure. Finishing under the Safety Car would, it would seem, involve the SC driving into the pit and no requirement for messages from Race Control. How can the race finish under the SC if Race Control state it is coming in. That, along with the green flags, would suggest that 40.13 would not apply.

What should have happened:

• No instruction on the SC from Race Control
  
• SC drives into pitlane
  
• Yellow flags remain
  
• Everyone tootles over the line
  

As it didn't, it seems a tad unfair that Schumacher gets punished. Alonso was clearly also racing at that point, whatever Domenicali said afterwards.

Well done Mark Webber! Seb's really on the back foot psychologically now. Wonder how he will react to being trounced twice in a week?

Green flags where defintely waved, which means FIA have no case to punish Shumacher.

Quote from Mustafur :

Green flags where defintely waved, which means FIA have no case to punish Shumacher.

Well further investigation of rules says the green flags are always waved when Safety car gets out. Racing is allowed from the SC line in the box, EXCEPT in the final lap, then it's forbidden till the start/finish line.. Bizzare rules, no wonder these things tend to happen. Everything was by the book, but the book beeing totally insane is a different matter

The rules say:

40.13 If the race ends whilst the safety car is deployed it will enter the pit lane at the end of the last lap and the cars will take the chequered flag as normal without overtaking.

However it fails to address the creation of the safety car line which was implimented this year so that racing continues from that line onwards.

So because of the safety car line the race was effectively restarted there and not till the end of the lap which it fails to address, this is also confirmed with the green flag waved when the Safety car went into the pits.

What should happen
-Mercedes appeal Contridictory rules
-Shumacher gets 6th position back
-40.13 is modified to say as following: 40.13 If the race ends whilst the Safety Car is deployed it Will go to the chequered flag(with no Overtaking) unless the race Stewards deem it to be safe and the race will resume from the Safety Car line(allowing Overtaking).

The Stewards Also put notice that lap that the Safety car was going into the pits which under the rules could mean two things:
-Race does not restart till they pass the Start/Finish line(Yellow flags)
-Race Restarts at the Safety car line(Green flags)

Green Flags where waved, you make your own mind

Rules are ****ed up, so many conflicts... These rules really need to be clarified...

The rule is 100% clear, the problem here is that the FIA didn't seem to know there own rules

if only they could agree a compramise, FIA to agree the rules need clarifying, mercedez / sxhumacher to agree that they had "mis interpreted" the spirit of the rules and the result to be declared as the order whe the safety car came into the pits, i.e.e alonso ahead of schumacher.

of course, too many ego's etc so this will rattle on and on and no one willl come out of it looking good

There needs to be less rules. There are safety rules for things that aren't even that dangerous, an example being the banning of donuts, its ridiculous.

20 second penalty is way too harsh. Is it really that hard to swap positions back around?

Schumacher forgot he doesn't drive for Ferrari any more, overtook a Ferrari, got a penalty. He should've known better.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

schumacher forgot he doesn't drive for ferrari any more, overtook a ferrari, got a penalty. He should've known better.

+1 l|_|lz

I thought it was a great, smart and fair pass.

But rules are rules i guess..

Quote from Mustafur :

The rules say:

40.13

But that other rule i told you about (40.19 or something) overrides that rule.

whats hard to understand?

do the lights go green before the SC pits?

nope, after....

but,

if the rules state that if its the last lap and there is no overtaking, then he should have held station.

a good try by the red baron, but tough titties it didnt work!

40.13 seems clear to me, but they confused everybody by telling the teams that the safety car was coming in and then waving green flags.

Either way, 20sec is a harsh penalty. The should have just given 6th place back to Alonso.

If a shop incorrectly marks the price of a product on it, and you buy it cheap, how would you feel if they showed the official price list and asked you to pay the rest plus a fine afterwards?

Regardless of what the rules (and exceptionally poorly written rules - how can the safety car be deployed and in at the same time) say, the officials in charge restarted the racing with green flags. Therefore Schumi's pass should stand.

If the appeal is not successful, and the officials somehow get away with saying that green flags no longer mean "continue racing" (except for the start of green flag laps prior to the start of the race), then Schumi should just be demoted back to 7th, and instead disqualify Hamilton for lying (he probably did).

Quote from tristancliffe :

disqualify Hamilton for lying (he probably did).

what?

Sorry.

For any Americans reading my previous post, add to the end.

Sorry for the re-post, I really am, I just feel I have a point which has been majorly overlooked, if not in penalties but in fairness all around.

If you have already noticed the post and read it feel free to shout at me and I will apologise

Don't know if anyone else picked up on this but..
Lap 1 in the tunnel when Hulkenburg had his accident Alonso was looking to make a move on Karun and the yellow flag was brought out but Alonso proceeded to make the move, I would say he was barely 1/4 of the way alongside Karun when the yellow flag or as it is, light, was shown, no matter the HRT agreement to allow Alonso through safely and not hinder him on his charge up field surely passing under yellow flags is against the rules no matter the situation (Very slow cars being one of few exceptions).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1ixXF340iA
A video to show Alonso was no where near alongside Karun.

Dude he drives a Ferrari - why would the FIA care?

Quote from tristancliffe :

If a shop incorrectly marks the price of a product on it, and you buy it cheap, how would you feel if they showed the official price list and asked you to pay the rest plus a fine afterwards?

Regardless of what the rules (and exceptionally poorly written rules - how can the safety car be deployed and in at the same time) say, the officials in charge restarted the racing with green flags. Therefore Schumi's pass should stand.

If the appeal is not successful, and the officials somehow get away with saying that green flags no longer mean "continue racing" (except for the start of green flag laps prior to the start of the race), then Schumi should just be demoted back to 7th, and instead disqualify Hamilton for lying (he probably did).

I believed you knew the rules more then anyone here? I didn't know them, but on other forum one guy clearly stated them. From this year, Safety car goes in the pit on the final lap, so the F1 cars are the first ones to cross the finish line, BUT, everything remains the same as if the Safety Car crossed the finish line, meaning, no overtaking/racing... Green flags are always waved when Safety car goes in, but that rule still stands. Yes, it's stupid, they will probably tweak that, but everything was by the rules.

Yawn, when was the last time a race result was deicded entirely on track? Ridiculous.