just like these guys:

http://www.racing-legends.com/news.htm

Now

I think the new LFS Physics will be awesome.

Looking forward!

No spam plz, kthnxbai

Quote from Bob Smith :

No spam plz, kthnxbai

Thanks for the cleanup, was one big mess.

I am not posting very often about LFS, but I think, that Scawen _should_ tell us about time horizont, when he expects to be done all the stuff he works on...
Just like "It will be done in another 2 years." or "I assume if everything will go fine, you can expect release like in 2 months.." (or early 2009)

ps: Feel free to remove this post. I just had to write something.
It's so depressing when you hear this game gets this, another that, and your the most lovely games gets .. delayed.. again :-(

Quote from Michalxo :

I am not posting very often about LFS, but I think, that Scawen _should_ tell us about time horizont, when he expects to be done all the stuff he works on...
Just like "It will be done in another 2 years." or "I assume if everything will go fine, you can expect release like in 2 months.." (or early 2009)

ps: Feel free to remove this post. I just had to write something.
It's so depressing when you hear this game gets this, another that, and your the most lovely games gets .. delayed.. again :-(

Sadly the problem is that "I hope to release" usually turns into "Scawen promised to release" around here quite fast

Quote from three_jump :

Sadly the problem is that "I hope to release" usually turns into "Scawen promised to release" around here quite fast

Well, if that's the only thing that's holding him back, it seems pretty deluded.

Quote from Michalxo :

I am not posting very often about LFS, but I think, that Scawen _should_ tell us about time horizont, when he expects to be done all the stuff he works on...
Just like "It will be done in another 2 years." or "I assume if everything will go fine, you can expect release like in 2 months.." (or early 2009)

Yes, that's exactly how the notion of "LfS is two years overdue" started... Do you want another wave of nerd rage if we pass this next ETA date as well?

A time ago people was all time asking for Scirocco, Scawen announced the developing of the new tyre physics and now people is asking for the new tyres physics and Scirocco, or some news... and I admit, that I ask it to myself sometimes .

Quote from Bean0 :

Sony don't give a shit that GT5 won't run one a PS1, MS don't care that the new Forza doesn't run on the original Xbox.

LFS should stop supporting obsolete hardware and raise it's minimum required spec.

But then you wouldn't be able to race me

IMHO LFS has become too large to keep on ignoring PR... (sigh)

Quote from bbman :

Yes, that's exactly how the notion of "LfS is two years overdue" started... Do you want another wave of nerd rage if we pass this next ETA date as well?

Thats what i thought also, was there actually any word from Scavier saying that it "will" be released during december 08? Cause all i can see is the following line

"We are pleased to announce that we plan to release the new VW Scirocco in Live for Speed during the week ending Friday 19th December."

And in there i cant see anywhere it saying the car "will" be released on a specific date, only that it was planned to.

Thats a way to look at things, but IMHO i think we need something, no matter how small being released, even if its just for the sake of fabricating a sensation of progress for the players.

Quote from arco :

Release early. Release often. And listen to your customers.

Quote from arco :

Release early. Release often. And listen to your customers.

that might work for some software, for example photo editing or audio players.
But for a game, I am not sure...

Quote from Gutholz :

that might work for some software, for example photo editing or audio players.
But for a game, I am not sure...

LFS is terminally in beta. This philosophy is what happens with a vast number of beta releases.

Quote from dawguk :

LFS is terminally in beta. This philosophy is what happens with a vast number of beta releases.

If you can call it anything I'd guess LFS is a stable alpha. Content and features are not yet complete but most bugs are sorted out already.

The problem that LFS is going to have now that progress is so slow, is that it will eventually be overtaken by rivals and potential customers will go elsewhere.

Once it has lost it's crown, with such a small development team, it will be extremely hard to ever get it back. Will the devs be able to justify their time developing something that is always going to be behind the competition?

While there is nothing better, LFS can afford to take it's time with development but the competition is catching up fast. I have not played iRacing but rFactor2 is coming soon...

Users will quickly go elsewhere when a better sim arrives and that will happen. It's up to the devs whether this happens in 1,2 or 10 years time!

Quote from southamptonfc :

The problem that LFS is going to have now that progress is so slow, is that it will eventually be overtaken by rivals and potential customers will go elsewhere.

In many peoples eyes, this has already happened, alot of LFS'ers have already moved to different sims.

Yes, sadly I think if it hasn't already happened, it is in the process of happening and LFS may have had it's day.

The thing is, all it'd take to draw people back in is a graphical overhaul. And we already know that's in the (admittedly pretty long) pipeline.

But LFS, for me anyway, feels a lot more visceral than any other racing games or sims. The lack of assists is really evident. In games like Forza 3, GT5P or Dirt 2 my lap times aren't quick but I can keep the cars on the road and moving pretty fast. But there's rarely a time when I feel the car is in danger of flying across the road out of my control.

In LFS that's always on the cards. I know that braking a fraction too late will put me on the gravel, I know that a little too much oversteer and I'll end up pointing the wrong way. That's what keeps me interested and that's why I always want to come back.

Quote from Dajmin :

But LFS, for me anyway, feels a lot more visceral than any other racing games or sims. The lack of assists is really evident. In games like Forza 3, GT5P or Dirt 2 my lap times aren't quick but I can keep the cars on the road and moving pretty fast. But there's rarely a time when I feel the car is in danger of flying across the road out of my control.

In LFS that's always on the cards. I know that braking a fraction too late will put me on the gravel, I know that a little too much oversteer and I'll end up pointing the wrong way. That's what keeps me interested and that's why I always want to come back.

I agree with everything said here, but for me personally I find the RWD cars in LFS too difficult to control.

In LFS I'm well able to race in all FWD and 4WD cars, but seem unable to race correctly in the RWD cars. They seem too slippery to me and I cannot consequently race them without losing them at some corner, even the low powered cars or maybe especially even the low powered cars. For some reason in GT5p I've just got a way better feel with the RWD cars and this has to do with the feedback the game gives in my opinion, not necessarily difficulty, but I don't know what exactly is different. What FWD and 4WD feels like to me in LFS is similar to what RWD feels like to me in GT5p; predictable, understandable and correctable.

The RWD feel in GT5P seems to me more real, because I cannot imagine an RWD to actually drive that difficult in real life or I would expect a lot more crashes irl.

I expect the new tyre physics to change this feel (for better or worse )and maybe Scawen is able to explain how his expected changes might influence the handling or what effects were seen that caused him to start rethinking the physics in the first place..

Quote from southamptonfc :

The problem that LFS is going to have now that progress is so slow, is that it will eventually be overtaken by rivals and potential customers will go elsewhere.

Quote from danowat :

In many peoples eyes, this has already happened, alot of LFS'ers have already moved to different sims.

LFS has long since been surpassed by all 3 of the main competitors IMO, those being iRacing, nKp and rFactor. In the case of rFactor it's obviously not the standard content but quality mods with proper physics. One can only assume that the release of rFactor 2 will only increase the gap with LFS.

Mind you, that doesn't mean that those 3 aren't seriously lacking in some aspects where LFS does it better or even excels, but as far as the actual driving aspect is concerned LFS is lagging behind IMO.

Quote from Dajmin :

The thing is, all it'd take to draw people back in is a graphical overhaul. And we already know that's in the (admittedly pretty long) pipeline.

I really don't think so. While LFS' graphics are hardly its strongpoint they are not that horrible, either. For me, after having raced all of the 3 previously mentioned race sims, it's the "feel" of LFS that puts me off it each and every time I decide to give it another try. It just doesn't feel anything like driving a real car IMO. I can't put my finger on it and I don't know how else to describe it, but there's just something way off about the whole way the cars feel and behave. I have no doubt that a lot of this has to do with LFS' infinite setup options resulting in ridiculous setups. That's another thing where the other 3 race sims are better than LFS; they only allow (more) realistic setup options and as a result the cars will feel more like you would expect a car to feel. Then of course there's the lack of FFB you get in LFS, combined with the supersmooth track surfaces giving you a pretty dull drive.

Quote from Dajmin :

In games like Forza 3, GT5P or Dirt 2 my lap times aren't quick but I can keep the cars on the road and moving pretty fast. But there's rarely a time when I feel the car is in danger of flying across the road out of my control.

You can't honestly compare LFS to Forza, GT or Dirt Of course LFS is the better "sim" out of those, but that's not saying much. In my opinion the only sims you can compare it to are iRacing, nKp and rFactor, everything else is usually one or more steps down the "sim" ladder.

Quote from arco :

Release early. Release often. And listen to your customers.

I support this. But not as a official release.

We could have a S2/S3 users only "EXPERIMENTAL" version of the current patch in development, this version would be unfinished and bug-filled with a section dedicated to it and maybe topic locked to avoid people posting and spamming. This will increase sales by a lot and make people happy, calm and supportive.

After this experimental version is more stable and less bug-filled, it would go as official public TEST patch where people can report bugs. I've seen this method for plenty of games and it works GREAT.

Scawen, please consider this.

I wasn't directly comparing them, but those are the biggest market in the racing game world. All eyes are on them, and especially with the amount of physics work involved in FM3 and GT5 a comparison is inevitable.

I've never played iRacing (and I never will) and my experience of NKP ended when I couldn't redefine the controls (so I was stuck in 1st gear). But in terms of rF v LFS, I think it all comes down to the staff headcount, doesn't it?
Without mods, rF would be in an even poorer state than LFS is. Without releasing the finished product, ISI probably wouldn't have let modders near it. Without so many people working on it, rF would never have been finished.

I keep trying to argue against getting more people involved with LFS, but in terms of keeping it as a marketable competitor it's getting really hard! With minor mods like the hi-res textures, LFS can look really good, but with rF2 somewhere on the horizon maybe LFS is just destined to be one of those programs that has amazing potential but takes about 20 years to get there.
I love the feel of driving in LFS. It just feels right. No other racer has ever given me that "holy crap" feeling as I hurtle into a corner with tyres squealing. I've done the same thing in real life (accidentally on a narrow country B-road) and like to believe it was my LFS experience that kept me from ending up mangled on a banking. I refuse to become a doomsayer, I just love it too much

Quote from Dajmin :

The thing is, all it'd take to draw people back in is a graphical overhaul.

I'm with obsolum on this one.

And, in my eyes, if a graphical overhaul was not just the corollary to proper updates (tyre model, better tracks, FFB, limited/locked sets etc), it would only bring more of the 'wrong' type of players.