Are you talking about sub renewal?

With any service you enter into full well knowing it's sub based, you'd have to be quite a few kernels short of a full cob to get caught out when you didn't want to be... Every single MMORPG operates that way... iRacing is kind of an MMO really you're building an online identity with it, progressing through ranks, earning points etc.

I understood your point about your schedule now, thanks for clarifying.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Are you talking about sub renewal?

I meant the original way it was handled. There were a few complaints about the early free trials, where the only mention of auto-renewal was buried well into the agreement, under what appeared to be a system requirements section. Also the early 3, 6, and 12 month auto-renewals occurred without renewal date notices and violated consumer laws in many states that require 60 day notices before renewal dates, and the option to cancel within 30 days after an auto-renewal charge shows up on a customer's credit card statement.

I assume iRacing is now compliant with consumer laws, but still auto-renewals (sub-renewals) have a tradition of being associated with the sleaziest of businesses, with Enzyte being one of the more prominent examples since the founder received an unusually harsh 25 year jail sentence (specifically for making it near impossible to stop auto-renewals). The company is still exists, but no longer does auto-renewals.

If you don't want auto-renewal, then use paypal, since money can't be withdrawn unless you specifically add it (assuming you don't tie it your bank account).

Quote from JeffR :

I meant the original way it was handled. There were a few complaints about the early free trials, where the only mention of auto-renewal was buried well into the agreement, under what appeared to be a system requirements section. Also the early 3, 6, and 12 month auto-renewals occurred without renewal date notices and violated consumer laws in many states that require 60 day notices before renewal dates, and the option to cancel within 30 days after an auto-renewal charge shows up on a customer's credit card statement.

That's interesting, I didn't know about those requirements. Although I definitely do not get 60 days notice from Blizzard Entertainment, nor would trying to cancel it after it's just renewed do any good. I'm pretty sure that that company has their bases covered however, so there must be more (or less) to it than you've stated.

Quote from JeffR :

If you don't want auto-renewal, then use paypal, since money can't be withdrawn unless you specifically add it (assuming you don't tie it your bank account).

Even if you do tie your Paypal to your bank account, it will not renew automatically. No new payments will be made without your input. Your license will just expire and you can revive it whenever you feel like paying for it.

Quote from JeffR :

The early 3, 6, and 12 month auto-renewals occurred without renewal date notices and violated consumer laws in many states that require 60 day notices before renewal dates, and the option to cancel within 30 days after an auto-renewal charge shows up on a customer's credit card statement.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

Although I definitely do not get 60 days notice from Blizzard Entertainment, nor would trying to cancel it after it's just renewed do any good.

It depends on the state you live in. If it's a monthly auto-renew, the 60 day notice doesn't apply since in effect, you get a renewal notice every 28 to 31 day, and the option to cancel after a renewal period usuallly won't apply (again depending on the state). If the renewal period is 3 months or more, most states will require an notice within 60 days of the renewal date, and the option to cancel just after a renewal period (this covers the case where the notice might get lost in the mail), would normally apply. If there's a problem with cancelling, you could always file a dispute with your credit card company, which usually try harder when you haven't already paid for the disputed charge (you're not required to pay and there's no interest until the disputed charge case is settled).

The most recent activity with auto-renewal issues was related to people who lost their homes to disasters or foreclosure, then getting auto-renew charges for annual home security systems, long after they were no longer in their homes.

Quote from JeffR :

the hook is that once a player has spent all tha money on cars and tracks, they feel obligated to continue to be iRenters.

There's certainly a lock-in effect, also because when you've spent hundreds of dollars on content, the subscription doesn't look that expensive anymore.

But I still think what keeps most of the 'good customers' in is new content. For iRacing the 'good customers' are those who don't think too much about spending on new content. That's the people who keeps iRacing's bank account in the black, and the ones they are rightfully interested in.

Quote from JeffR :

As far as competition goes, there are some players that no longer consider realism that important in a racing game,

That's no news, what's easy to learn will have more success of what is hard anything else being equal: thus racing games attract the general public more than hardcore sims

OTOH those who have spent enough time getting used to hardcore sims can usually jump from one to another without problems.

Quote from JeffR :

associate auto-renewals with the sleaziest of companies

If autorenewals were turned off by default, it would improve my perception of them, make them look less like greedy leeches, I'll give you that. OTOH I can't stop thinking european and as such I believe customers need pay enough attention when they throw their money around, to be able and avoid these little traps.

to be honest most things with subscriptions are auto renew these days, from my sky tv subs to my RAC membership to my sons star wars models collection, so i wouldn't criticise iracing for it.

however what they should do is draw your attention to it more so people are aware of it when they first join, a page in the sign up process with the option on autosubsctiption between entering your details and completing the transaction would be just fine.

Quote from JeffR :

As far as competition goes, there are some players that no longer consider realism that important in a racing game, and may even consider something like NFS Shift, despite the lack of realism.

Quote from NightShift :

That's no news, what's easy to learn will have more success of what is hard anything else being equal: thus racing games attract the general public more than hardcore sims.

The initial learning curve may be easier, depending on the game and/or car being used. In the case of iRacing, I found the Radical to be relatively easy to drive. NR2003, rFactor, and the GTR series have assists that simplify the initial learning curve; NR2003 could even do most of the steering for you. Grand Prix Legends was/is probably the most difficult to learn, which is why it didn't sell that well early on. Most racing games, both arcade and sim-oriented, become challenging once you start running competitive (versus other online players) lap times, but with the arcade games, your not "managing" the car as much as you normally do with sim-oriented games.

Quote from tinvek :

to be honest most things with subscriptions are auto renew these days

It's a matter of context, it would be weird if my net subscription didn't auto renew itself. But iRacing isn't as basic a thing as another subscription.

I'm sure some people are glad that iRacing has autorenewal, it's just another default setting would be more appropriate for the nature of that service.

Quote from JeffR :

Most racing games, both arcade and sim-oriented, become challenging once you start running competitive (versus other online players) lap times

That's certain, the big difference for me is the skills you usually learn in one racing game are more often than not, totally meaningless in other titles (except for very basic things)

In sims, people who come from RL driving have a lot to learn early on, e.g. evaluating distance, speed, corners and to make for the lack of any seat of pants. Racing games are usually designed so that these things are simply not there or not as critical.

BTW I haven't driven the Radical but usually downforce cars with plenty of grip tend to feel more agreeable than non-downforce cars, e.g. the slower single seaters in LFS are easier to get along with than a humble XRG, in nKP the F1600 vs the F2000.

I suppose the same applies to a Radical vs Solstice comparison.

Wow is anyone even making a point anymore? What the hell are you all even talking about.

Quote from spanks :

Wow is anyone even making a point anymore? What the hell are you all even talking about.

General rambling now. Other than iRacing's large drop in prices and the ongoing increase in content, there isn't much going on at iRacing, other that some event combinations are getting sparsely attended due to the increase in content. I haven't heard if the number of active players has exceeded 20,000 yet. I had the impression that the iRacing group was expecting more like 40,000 or more active players by now.

I have an old video of the Radical at SilverStone. The Radical was easier to drive than the boringly slow and somewhat difficult to deal with Soltice, and much easier than the original Spec Racer Ford which had an excessive engine braking bug that threatened to spin the car every time you lifted the throttle. This is all I have from my one month free trial with iRacing a year or so ago, a video of the Radical at Silverstone (also another at Lime Rock not as interesting), where I use GPL like induced understeering to counter lift throttle oversteer to put the Radical into a 4 wheel drift in turns. Maybe not as fast, but it was more fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRBs61lwh4M&fmt=22

Ok first off, I have not read the entire thread for obvious reasons so this issue has probably been addressed before. Secondly I am a big fan of Papyrus and Dave Kaemmer all the way back to Indy500 and have been following the development of the iRacing-sim since it was first announced.

But, MY problem with iRacing is that you first have to buy all the content for a ridiculous amount of money but still don't own it. Because then you MUST pay a subscription to even have a private practice session. That's a 100% rip-off in my book.

Paying a subscription to race in their leagues is an ok deal, but having to pay extra money, if my league-subscription's run out, just to have a few private laps; FORGET IT! It's never gonna happen!

But, allow private practice sessions without having to subscribe and I would join iRacing at once!

Just my view. Anybody else feel this way?

Quote from stefan_70 :

Ok first off, I have not read the entire thread for obvious reasons so this issue has probably been addressed before. Secondly I am a big fan of Papyrus and Dave Kaemmer all the way back to Indy500 and have been following the development of the iRacing-sim since it was first announced.

But, MY problem with iRacing is that you first have to buy all the content for a ridiculous amount of money but still don't own it. Because then you MUST pay a subscription to even have a private practice session. That's a 100% rip-off in my book.

Paying a subscription to race in their leagues is an ok deal, but having to pay extra money, if my league-subscription's run out, just to have a few private laps; FORGET IT! It's never gonna happen!

But, allow private practice sessions without having to subscribe and I would join iRacing at once!

Just my view. Anybody else feel this way?

Yeah, that's come up and been discussed before. Ad nauseum. On pretty much every single sim racing forum I think it's safe to say any possible arguments both for and against the subscription system have been stated hundreds of times already There's tons of people who feel the same way and tons of people who disagree.

In the end what it comes down to is: it is what it is and you either love it or leave it. Plain and simple.

EDIT: just thought I'd point out you don't have to buy all the content to get started. I'm sure you know this but just thought I'd mention it as in your post you say "you first have to buy all the content", which isn't the case. The initial investment to get started can be as little as $5 if you use on of their many promotions. After that you just pay your subscription every month if you want to keep racing, and any additional content you want, that's up to you. If you want a break from racing then simply stop renewing your subscription.

Just in time for me

Renew your membership for a year and we’ll send you $30 iRacing credits. Think of it as a little thank you for being a member of iRacing. You can use your free credits to purchase cars or tracks, extend your membership further or even some hosted sessions.
Whether your membership expires this month or next year, you can still take advantage of this great deal. When you purchase another year it will be added to the length of your subscription so don’t worry about losing time. Feel free to extend by two or three years as well, you’ll get $30 iRacing credits for each year you extend.



With so much going on at iRacing.com and the $30 iRacing credits offer, now is the perfect time to extend your membership. Here is a quick look at what is coming soon to iRacing.com:

• The iRacing.com Driving School
  
• Fixed Setup Racing
  
• Street Stock racecar
  
• Spectator Mode and Visual Enhancements
  
• Williams FW31 Formula One racecar
  
• Thompson Speedway
  
• Several International tracks including Okayama in Japan
  

Instructions on how to receive your credits




To take advantage of this renewal offer login to your existing account by clicking here (please do not create a new account). Once you have logged in to your account follow these steps:

1. Click the My Account link at the top of the page
   
2. Click the Cancel/Renew Subscription button and follow the instructions on the page
   
3. Choose 1-Year from the Subscription Choices drop down.
   
4. Then choose payment method and fill out/review the billing and shipping information.
   
5. Accept the Terms and Agreements and then click the Next button.
   
6. Review the Description and Price and then click Next and follow along with the rest of the online instructions.
   
7. We’ll email you a redemption code for the $30 iRacing credits the first week of July.
   

*Offer valid for existing accounts only. Offer expires June 30, 2010.

£68 for me. Hmmm.

Yeah now let me do my broken record gig and say they might have problem keeping existing customers in.

That said I'm thinking about taking advantage of that offer and buy some content for the D class.

Yay! I'll be taking advantage of this for sure. Perfect timing too!

Quote :

Feel free to extend by two or three years as well, you’ll get $30 iRacing credits for each year you extend.

Seems like they're desperate for fresh capital.. Hope it's not urgent!

so theres no promo code?

I'm tempted to buy a year.

Quote from brt900 :

so theres no promo code?

Nope, just sign up for a year or more before the end of June.

Was this an email or is it on website somewhere?

Quote from SpikeyMarcoD :

Was this an email or is it on website somewhere?

It's an email. But it should apply to all users, regardless of whether or not you received the mail.

$99, damn.

Quote from Some iR dude :

The site will be unavailable as we deploy sim updates. The current schedule is:

Wednesday, 02-JUN-2010

EDT GMT
0000 0400 Hosted Sessions Disabled for New Sessions
0400 0800 Service Down
0800 1200 Service Up

All timing is tentative and subject to change.

Getting ready for the Mustang and Mid-Ohio?

i hope so

OT. ive created a monster !!


having spent last 9 months recovering from post viral fatigue syndrome at the end of last week i finally felt readyt o race agin, i'd done a couple of simulated race runs in the mazda in testing and practice so on sunday evening i was going to race (at my least favourite road course as well)

had to be evening as on sunday i was taking my son to his first ever race meeting, at trac mon / anglesey circuit. i confidently expected to ge tthere for first race and for him to be bored by about 2pm.

how wrong was i, we stayed for every race and then he insisted i watched the indy 500 with him and thne the full recording of the turkish GP so bang went the iracing.

yesterday and today i was commited to digging out the old fishpond and embarking on a pretty large extension to it so no chance there, tom orrow i need ot tidy up bottom of it, put in liner and fill so i can move the fish back from their tempory home ( £10 paddling pool) but i will race before friday night

one good thing is i now have an excuse to go to any race meeting i want