Quote from DevilDare :

Uhm, shows how much you paid attention to the race... Lewis and Webber pitted at the same time.

..which was a shitty bit of strategy on Mclarens part imo. Lewis was clearly quicker than Webber at that point... If they had kept him out for one more lap I have the feeling he'd have grabbed the lead. He was never going to beat Webber in the pits, even if he hadn't had the small problem with the rear wheel.

Quote from DevilDare :

Uhm, shows how much you paid attention to the race... Lewis and Webber pitted at the same time.

I think he was talking about Lewis vs Vettel, but Lewis had a problem in his pit stop, and anyway he'd always be slowed down by having to wait for Webber to come past to exit his pit.

Quote from The Moose :

..which was a shitty bit of strategy on Mclarens part imo. Lewis was clearly quicker the Webber at that point... If they had kept him out for one more lap I have the feeling he'd have grabbed the lead. He was never going to beat Webber in the pits, even if he hadn't had the small problem with the rear wheel.

Yeah, but according to the BBC Red Bull just acted on top of Mclaren. They saw Mclaren mechanics out so they proceeded to do the same. They knew they would of lost have they not pitted Mark on the same lap.

Quote from The Moose :

..which was a shitty bit of strategy on Mclarens part imo. Lewis was clearly quicker than Webber at that point... If they had kept him out for one more lap I have the feeling he'd have grabbed the lead. He was never going to beat Webber in the pits, even if he hadn't had the small problem with the rear wheel.

staying out for one extra lap most probably wouldn't work neither...

their best chance would be to pit together to pressure RBR into making a mistake, but it backfired~

Quote from JCTK :

their best chance would be to pit together to pressure RBR into making a mistake, but it backfired~

Lets be honest...Red Bull don't do pit stop mistakes very often

Quote from The Moose :

Lets be honest...Red Bull don't do pit stop mistakes very often

But worse still, one is NEVER going to be able to pass another car by staying out for one or a few more laps longer neither, since they ain't gonna get the benefits of low fuel anyway. While the guy pitted early have the fresh tyres...

Quote from JCTK :

but as we have seen throughout the season so far, the guys that pitted early for fresh tyres would gain grounds/position on cars that decided to stay out on older tyres...

And I believes Button was trying to drive "smart" again by keeping a safe distance behind Vettel, wasn't sure if that was exactly a great idea through...

both McLaren couldn't show their true pace for the first 40 laps that's for sure. And after that they've been told to back off.

Yes I agree.

Button seemed to be able to close the gap whenever he wanted to, but choose the "smart" style, by not burning his tires in the dirty air of Hamilton and Vettel. But shame on me for ever suggesting that Button was at least equally as fast as Hamilton this race.

And Devildare, I dont know what race You watched, but I watched the Turkish GP, seriously...

Quote from DevilDare :

Uhm, shows how much you paid attention to the race... Lewis and Webber pitted at the same time.

I was on about Vettel who almost managed to jump them BOTH by pitting a lap before.

Did anyone watch the BBC's post race forum? Very interesting going-ons there. Basically they discovered that in the three laps prior to the Webber/Vettel crash, Red Bull told Webber to turn his engine down, while they told Vettel to turn his up.

Suggesting more going on by Webber's responses in the press conference:

Q. Is there any reason why he had a jump on you on that particular lap?
MW: Hmm. Maybe.

Q. Did you come out of the previous corner a bit slower on that lap?
MW: Hmm. You guys need to dig more, somewhere else.


Also quite disappointing to see that Horner seems to be taking Vettel's side in this whole thing and blaming Webber. And Vettel's hand gestures after the incident were just embarrasing.

Quote from mythdat :

Did anyone watch the BBC's post race forum? Very interesting going-ons there. Basically they discovered that in the three laps prior to the Webber/Vettel crash, Red Bull told Webber to turn his engine down, while they told Vettel to turn his up.

Suggesting more going on by Webber's responses in the press conference:

Q. Is there any reason why he had a jump on you on that particular lap?
MW: Hmm. Maybe.

Q. Did you come out of the previous corner a bit slower on that lap?
MW: Hmm. You guys need to dig more, somewhere else.


Also quite disappointing to see that Horner seems to be taking Vettel's side in this whole thing and blaming Webber. And Vettel's hand gestures after the incident were just embarrasing.

Yeah I seen that alright.. Quite annoying really the way their taking sides so early. Though Vettel is probably faster, I want Webber to beat him even more now!

Quote from lamerr :

Yes I agree.

Button seemed to be able to close the gap whenever he wanted to, but choose the "smart" style, by not burning his tires in the dirty air of Hamilton and Vettel. But shame on me for ever suggesting that Button was at least equally as fast as Hamilton this race.

And Devildare, I dont know what race You watched, but I watched the Turkish GP, seriously...

Hamilton didn't burn his tyres though. Button couldn't press Vettel in the early stages and if Hamilton got past Webber Button would've been 10-15 seconds behind come the end of the race. Considering Hamilton spent the whole race in dirty air at the tyre eater circuit of Turkey I think we can safely put the idea Hamilton eats tyres to bed

Button did well for sure and was a bit cheeky... but 'at least as fast' is nonsense talk.

i'm still saying its both drivers fault just look at Daredevil replay on youtube. Why the hell would webber stay there when vettel was way faster. Had he got back to the normal line he would probably have been able to either cut inside and try to get the position back or vettel would have missed the turn. Webber lack of reaction is partly what caused the crash. Anyway it's not like it was the first time webber did an overly defensive move on someone.

Quote from Kazu2799 :

i'm still saying its both drivers fault just look at Daredevil replay on youtube. Why the hell would webber stay there when vettel was way faster. Had he got back to the normal line he would probably have been able to either cut inside and try to get the position back or vettel would have missed the turn. Webber lack of reaction is partly was caused the crash.

He didn't cause the crash. He created the environment for it to happen, but he didn't cause it.

Vettel caused it because he drove his car into Webber's.

Quote from Intrepid :

He didn't cause the crash. He created the environment for it to happen, but he didn't cause it.

Vettel caused it because he drove his car into Webber's.

Well if he created the environment for it to happen it means that it's partly his fault =/

Quote from Kazu2799 :

Well if he created the environment for it to happen it means that it's partly his fault =/

No! My point was that you help create a situation that could cause a collision by simply putting your car on a race track. So yes Webber allowed Vettel up the inside, but what he did was normal racing protocol. However, what Seb did was so stupid is drive his car into Webber's assuming Webber would move out of the way. Something he doesn't HAVE to do.

The big mistake from Seb though was his gestures afterwards showing a lack of understanding about what just happened.

Quote from Intrepid :

No! My point was that you help create a situation that could cause a collision by simply putting your car on a race track. So yes Webber allowed Vettel up the inside, but what he did was normal racing protocol. However, what Seb did was so stupid is drive his car into Webber's assuming Webber would move out of the way. Something he doesn't HAVE to do.

The big mistake from Seb though was his gestures afterwards showing a lack of understanding about what just happened.

I agree with the hand gesture but imo Webber had the opportunity to avoid the crash and even get his position back by simply going back to the normal racing line. In the end i guess vettel caused the crash all by himself but webber didin't help one bit xD

Quote from Kazu2799 :

I agree with the hand gesture but imo Webber had the opportunity to avoid the crash and even get his position back by simply going back to the normal racing line. In the end i guess vettel caused the crash all by himself but webber didin't help one bit xD

Of course Webber didn't help. It's motor racing! Helping someone to pass is the complete opposite of what racing means

Vettel just assumed Webber would 'let him through'. Webber, fearing a repeat of Malaysia, rightly decided to not be a pussy

Quote from Kazu2799 :

I agree with the hand gesture but imo Webber had the opportunity to avoid the crash and even get his position back by simply going back to the normal racing line. In the end i guess vettel caused the crash all by himself but webber didin't help one bit xD

I'm sure Webber WOULD have gone back the racing line to brake had Vettel not crashed into him. This incident happened well before the braking zone.. there was no reason for Webber to move at that point.

Quote from Intrepid :

Of course Webber didn't help. It's motor racing! Helping someone to pass is the complete opposite of what racing means

Vettel just assumed Webber would 'let him through'. Webber, fearing a repeat of Malaysia, rightly decided to not be a pussy

He was already past Webber, but Webber didn't even considered move to the outside although he was passed already...

Maybe Webber wasn't a pussy but a dickhead and an Idiot. AsTeamchef i'd be pissed about him.

All he done was playing in the hand of Mclaren.

LoL @ mythdat, you're deluded... watch the replay. It was Vettels corner... Webber lost.

Quote from JazzOn :

He was already past Webber, but he didn't even considered move to the outside although he was passed already...

Maybe Webber wasn't a pussy but a dickhead and an Idiot. AsTeamchef i'd be pissed about him.

All he done was playing in the hand of Mclaren.

Webber did nothing wrong. Vettel didn't give Webber any time to move over which he would have done given a few more yards. For some reason Seb thought half a car length meant he could sweep and cut Webber. He was 100% wrong, and his actions afterwards were completely disgraceful to the point of embarrassing.



Seb had moved across on Hamilton in a similar way earlier in the race funnily enough.

Vettel will be the one kicking himself tonight.

And it wasn't 'his corner'. They hadn't even reached the braking zone yet

Quote from Intrepid :

Webber did nothing wrong. Vettel didn't give Webber any time to move over which he would have done given a few more yards. For some reason Seb thought half a car length meant he could sweep and cut Webber. He was 100% wrong, and his actions afterwards were completely disgraceful to the point of embarrassing.

Seb had moved across on Hamilton in a similar way earlier in the race funnily enough.

Vettel will be the one kicking himself tonight.

And it wasn't 'his corner'. They hadn't even reached the braking zone yet

He did wrong by screwing his team. He should have been aware of the fact that 2 faster cars come. One of them being a teammate. This wasn't the time to get the elbows out.

And of course it was already his(Vettels) turn. What do you expect to happen? Webber geting suddenly, completely out of nowhere, a boost in speed? They dont use KERS, do they?

Weird but i agree Jpeace.

Webber showed he's not as wise and smart as he wants everybody to believe. I definitely won't support him anymore

I predict he will never be a champion! quote me...

Quote from JazzOn :

He did wrong by screwing his team. He should have been aware of the fact that 2 faster cars come. One of them being a teammate. This wasn't the time to get the elbows out.

And of course it was already his(Vettels) turn. What do you expect to happen? Webber geting suddenly, completely out of nowhere, a boost in speed? They dont use KERS, do they?

It's motor racing, NOT a charity. I think you're mixing the two up! Vettel had not won ANY corner, and was NOT ahead in any shape or form. He had a small over lap and turned INTO Webber.

I don't think Webber really 'squeezed' Vettel, though. I mean it wasn't as if Webber pushed him across the track - Vettel was already up against the left side of the track, he put himself there. Webber just held him there.

Quote from mythdat :

I don't think Webber really 'squeezed' Vettel, though. I mean it wasn't as if Webber pushed him across the track - Vettel was already up against the left side of the track, he put himself there. Webber just held him there.

There was a rival with the name Hamilon coming up real fast and going right to take the shortly coming left turn in a reasonable speed.

Webber acted as if this was last lap, last corner...


Edit:

Quote from Intrepid :

It's motor racing, NOT a charity. I think you're mixing the two up! Vettel had not won ANY corner, and was NOT ahead in any shape or form. He had a small over lap and turned INTO Webber.

IDK if you watch F1 for 1st time, but getting alongside someone means you done something right and thats not what you can say about Webber. Again... it wasn't last lap. He could have defend his position still from the right side (example: mclaren guys)