Seriously, why knows Wyatt would know that he pretty properly owned LFS before he got into iRacing. Additionally Norbi, NickC, Chriskart and many more are into international motorsport and active LFS racers.
The biggest criticism is that it's just so ****ing expensive if you really want to get into it. And still it's not pure realism. Talking about the pure car handling i must say i prefer LFS because it just gives so much more feedback.
I think the bottom line is this; how much do you want to spend to race in a sim?
LFS is, so far, a one time pay sim. Pay for it and use it as much as you want, when you want. Any new content like cars or tracks that have come out in the past, no payment necessary. Drive online or offline, your choice.
iRacing is pay by the month. Someone said you get free upgrades in iRacing, no you don't. You have paid for the present, and future upgrades, by being a paying subscriber. Any new cars or tracks, if you want to use them, you must buy them. It's been said that once you pay for cars and tracks you own them forever. Not really cause they are useless unless you keep paying by the month. Drive online, yes. Drive offline, no.
It's all a matter of how much do you want to spend. It would be interesting to know the cost of iRacing for a 3 year period, including all tracks and cars, compared to the cost of LFS for 3 years
Maybe you're basing your assumption on the Legend or Solstice or Spec Racer?
There are NO tracks in LFS that give the feel of the real thing, it's just a matter of getting used to where the slip limit is.
Me personally, i focus on the ovals. And 50 laps at Thompson makes my wrists hurt, and that's simply due to the characteristics of the track, not just turning up the FFB.
The first time i tried iRacing, i was put off. But, i also had onboard GFX card and a worn out momo.
Now with a good card, and a DFPGT, it's a different experience. I will admit to being very judgemental and against it for the cost. But I previously paid for numerous LFS servers that sat empty most of the time. And as of late, I haven't had any satisfactory racing experiences in LFS in quite some time. SO if i have to spend a little cash to refresh my online racing, dammit that's my choice.
Believe me, I'm not bashing LFS in any way. 170,000+ miles in under 2.5 years shows it. But I think there are far too many people that go by their first impression, with the attitude that it's a comparison test.
It's not a comparison at all.
Hmm that is interesting Kev. I signed up when the Talladega deal came out, and enjoyed Lime Rock, but found when I got to Laguna with my 2002 PC with some dreadful GFX card from even then, and my old non responsive DFP, I found it just didn't feel worth it. I'm quite interested when I finally get a new PC (LOL) and a perhaps a new wheel to try iRacing again. My first thoughts were that it blew my mind, it just couldn't hold it under current conditions.
LFS has definately focused on being a Sim for all people which means amoung other things that they have very diliberately aimed for a low price point for affordability and they also have very diliberately aimed to ensure LFS can run on older hardware and require no additional input or outpout devices other than what comes standard on your PC. LFS has excelled at this.
iRacing is not in any way trying to reach or satisfy this end of the market so it's demands on hardware and expectations of setup are quite different.
I started out in LFS with an xbox controller and old PC - I couldn't imagine enjoying iRacing with such a set up at all, where with LFS it would still be fun even today. Towards the end of my run in LFS though I had a reasonably descent racing rig with a new PC, tripple screens and G25. Going from LFS to iRacing with this hardware I found the experience was more than good enough to keep me coming back for more...
You completely missed his point however and did what 99% of every iRacing lover does. You mistaked "the feel" with iR's content, not its physics. Put LFS' physics on iR's content, and I can promise it'll be better than what it is currently.
Does that mean iRacing's physics are shabby? Let's assume that you are right and LFS's physics are better than iR's. LFS's damage system is crap to the point of non-existent, hot tyres feel like soap (which is what the new tyre model's suppose to change but it isn't here yet.....), and the tracks feel way to smooth and clean.
I think i'd still rank iR over based on all those things unless you feel that iR's physics are an abomination. (Which I can't imagine anyone saying)
It's far easier to hold a drift in LFS - meaning the tyre model is more progressive when past maximum cornering grip (some would argue this is more correct some would argue the opposite). iRacings grip is also quite forgiving when you have the correct line and speed through a corner probably more so than LFS but if you get it wrong in any way it's less forgiving than LFS which is where most peoples first impressions come from. iRacing's low speed grip doesn't feel wrong were LFS's always has. And pretty much every other aspect is comparable
As I said earlier one thing that has always stood out to me as a driver of both Sims is that in iRacing I always feel there is a better time available to me by getting everything more correct. In LFS I often felt like I was hitting a wall, I knew psychologically that I could go quicker but often felt I couldn't - it's hard to put into words... and is probaly as much the track detail as the physics.
TBH i don't give two sh*ts about physics, or tire models, i care about having a good battle on a race track, and finishing it with the sense that it was somewhat close to reality.
I have learned to like iRacing for what it can give me, and there are minimal drawbacks (so far) in iRacing ovals compared to ANY racing in LFS in it's current state.
I must be missing something relative to your idea of the differences in physics. I have only driven a few of the cars in the iR roster, and they seem to act as they should, keeping in mind that both are computer generated examples of reality, and both are still under development.
Believe me, there's alot in LFS that i really appreciate. But like 99% of every other LFS lover does, I have grown too accustomed to that, and it's not reality. Maybe the physics are more accurate, or the tire model seems better. But i have bounced a few real race cars off walls and other cars, and have yet to be flung 600 feet skyward. THAT is not a simulation to me. That is just a game(albeit a good one).
Alot of the pro-LFS people stand up for what they believe, and show their loyalty. I stand right behind them, and still recommend it to anyone I know who may be interested.
But the simple fact is, cost or not, IRacing is doing something LFS isn't right now: filling servers.
And if it is so bad, then it makes me wonder why of the 7 people in a Solstice race I did earlier, 3 of them were LFS players, two finishing 1st & 2nd(no, neither of them was me of course, and one was your own teammate).
It's just sad that the state of affairs here have gone the way of negativity. This is no longer a place to talk about LFS, it's a place to bitch about LFS, and everything else.
This very thread started as a voiced opinion complaining about iR.
Said it before, i'll say it again. Stop comparing the two. It's pointless.
Some people choose vanilla, some choose chocolate. Some like the twist.
You just jumped all over me for no reason. You were responding to someone and not understanding what he was saying. TBH you just proved my point by saying you don't care about the physics, so your whole "response" to me was pointless.
I hope you didn't waste too much time typing all that.
This is how it is in real life. Speed in real life, past a certain point (different for each driver), is utterly unfathomable. You may spend a month at that wall, you may spend the rest of your life.
I suspect the disparity is due to the sheer technical nature of iRacing, versus the more organic nature of LFS.
I do recognise what your saying there, and have found that most times getting a decent set off someone running prety close to WR times (i.e. in the top 5) solves most of those situations along with adapting driving style. So not sure if it is all physics related or not, keeping in mind that LFS allows greater flexibility in set up options generally. I also note that especially with the diff's in LFS I've felt odd traits as well in the physics, fortunately though with the introduction of preload, etc that can be tuned out and with the flywheel inertia introduced I think the situation improved also.
iRacing has and is going along similar development lines to LFS and in the short time I've been with them I have seen changes in the physics in several areas including throttle response, tyres and transmissions. So both Sims will no doubt continue to improve in key areas of physics.
It will be very interesting to try LFS on the new lasrer scanned track and tyre physics
Thats the thing I'm trying to discribe though LFS feels too precise and clinical with its environment and perhaps evan its physics because you can repeat sector after sector within a few 100ths of a sec, in iRacing you can do conisitent laps yes but it feels much more organic and a little less predictable sector after sector, which is why I never feel like I'm hitting a wall in it as much as in LFS.
As I said though that can be down to a number of things, the track environment, set up parameters (you can tune cars in LFS to well - i.e. brakes, very small adjustment increments and large ranges for most set up parameters) and physics. It's the whole package that determines the feel not just one area.
All i simply wanted to do was explain my view, with the hopes that some others would see that the whole point(in my opinion) of both sims is to bring people together for a good race.
I wouldn't care if it was Radio-Flyers on brick roads, as long as the battle was good.
I actually see it backwards. I know in oval Pro series, when we have a comfortable a "good feeling" car, its .1-.2 off a lap, which on a oval and in a series as competitive as that, its a big deal. This week at Texas we have a setup that is incredibly quick but yet it drives so wrong. If the car in real life is that twitchy, then I give the NASCAR drivers mad props.
@Kev: I see what you are saying, I was initially responding to when you said "I disagree". Nothing more.
The big difference with iRacing is that every other sim is like driving on a flat plate of glass in comparison. So despite all the things to dislike, after feeling the undulations and bumps through the steering and their effects when driving on the limit, you just don't want to bother with anything else.
But I dislike:
-The relative cost but particularly the subscription system.
-The choice of cars
-The sounds ( although they're better than LFS IMO)
-The graphics
-The seriousness and pressure - your real name is there, and every time trial, practice, and race can be watched and downloaded, and is recorded in the stats.
-The PR/hype
-The damage model
-The stupidly slippery grass
-The misleading safety/irating/div rating system
-The overly American racing culture aspect (no offence, but it's just not the same as the British/European one)
But I've done it every day, for the last 6 months and not touched another sim other than maybe a total of 1/2 hr just to remind myself.
I come here periodically hoping for some good news. But that makes no sense; there can be no good news as the tracks will still be flat and dead, unrealistic and like an arcade game no matter how good the physics might turn out to be. FWIW, though, iRacing's Dave K says he's destroyed a lot of tyres (sorry tires) on a test rig investigating the over-the-limit behaviour, and his new tyre model fits the data. Maybe more hype, but we wait expectantly for that update.
On the plus side, if you're fast in LFS, you'll probably be in iRacing too once you've come to terms with the more complex surface.
Ah ok I haven't done anything with the ovals at all so can't compare in that case, one thing I note though with ovals is you would be near the limit of grip a much greater proportion of the time than on a road course.
About your comment to Sim set up verses real life though, I'm damn sure in a real life a set up it is compromise between fast and what is drivable for a race distance. In any Sim set up you are not so much compromised by what is drivable as you can practise without restriction until you get it perfect also you do not have the same physical forces being exertion against your body making it easier to cope with a fast set that is not comfortable to drive and the concequences for crashing are fare less reaching in a Sim so therefore you as a driver are likely to be much more willing to drive a set you know is fast but more dificult to drive. So I guess I question if race engineers would set up the car for their drivers just purely on lap time and with no regard to drivability over a race distance, I have certainly read and heard the opposite
That update will make or break the game for me. I am currently hanging in limbo about whether I like it or not. I love the competition, the leagues, the progression, the racing, but the physics are lacking something that makes me really want to get on and drive it like I do LFS. I am confident the update will improve the situation, however, since my main gripes with the physics are slides and slide recovery, and that seems to be the area of focus for the update.
Unfortunately, that update is probably at least 3 months away. There is no way they'd deploy something like that mid-season.
I will be able to directly compare the sim to real life later this month, that may help.
The cost of iRacing should not be included in a direct comparison to LFS , we all understand the cost of both rides and it should be pretty easy to understand that iRacing is serving a niche market of a niche market if that makes sense.
You would be a fool to invest money into something you are not prepared to invest the time into as well, and this is where i see people make a big mistake .
In think its odd to expect the two sims to feel the same or have arguments as to which one feels better because its entirely subjective.
After reading all of you guys had to say and all the advices I got I decided to take a closer look at iRacing and finally it's not that bad. The thing is that when I first tried it I was driving with a Driving Force GT but now I drive with a G27 and the feeling is waaay not the same. The thing is that with a clutch pedal the gear shifting is a lot more fun and realistic. So now I apologize to all the iRacing content and it's comunity because I kinda like it now. Both sim are fun and that's the best thing.
