Quote from justasimfan :

... why devs do not think about using some of the most talented users to help them...

Just a question: What makes you think the devs DON'T use help from other people? Just because the guys are not shouting out loud doesn't mean they don't get help from others.

greetz

der stop-the-dreadful-suspiciathon butz

Quote from Scawen :

Why the sarcastic comment?

The tone of your comment suggests that you think I am really quite stupid. But maybe your comment is the thing that needs attention, because I really have no idea what you are talking about.

I am not aware of putting any text messages in the middle of the screen which block all view. That sounds like a very serious bug - maybe it should be in the bug reports section? Or maybe you are exaggerating and really you have noticed some text that could be in a better position? In which case you should be writing in the improvement suggestions. Post a screenshot as well so we know what you are talking about.

Either way, your comment is not about tyre physics or the Scirocco. Sarcastic posts like yours and scipy's are not welcome here. From the tone of your text, your intention is to annoy me. You are wasting my time. If you want to post here, stay on topic.

what the bet the muppet is on about /rcm. I bet you one cookie

Quote from Scawen :

While most people will be happy to see these improvements, we predict that some will be disappointed that the other GTR cars are not yet done. But don't worry, the FZ updates are near complete and we are keen to get that released along with the FXO updates as soon as possible - but not in time for Patch Z which will look very much like today's test patch and should be released next week.

Why we can't see them in Z28 patch?

Quote from Amynue :

Why we can't see them in Z28 patch?

I don't know, you'd have to ask Eric.

As I said before, this thread is Tyre Physics Progress Report + Scirocco discussion.

If you are starting to think this is random question time for Scawen, please think again... maybe it's time to close the thread.

Just ignore them, i'm surpised you are reading them.

This is actually what most people want, feedback from the developers, not months-long silence. Just stating the obvious

Quote from Scawen :

I don't know, you'd have to ask Eric.

You know he will not answer Let's hope you are holding the interiors for the big patch.

Quote from Scawen :

As I said before, this thread is Tyre Physics Progress Report + Scirocco discussion.

Ok so lets go back on topic. Did you send that new version of tyre physics patch to beta testers already or still polishing the tyres? Working so long on one thing have to be comprehensive

Quote from Scawen :

... maybe it's time to close the thread.

This idea / suggestion probably already appeared several times in this thread.

Quote from adamshl :

This will not change anything, next threads come up like mushrooms after the rain.

But you know it, because this topic a bit has changed.

Quote from patrese :

Just ignore them, i'm surpised you are reading them.

Yes, I was also asking myself what I am doing here...

I am quite pleased with the contact patch / tread simulation at the moment, several recent updates resulted in more interesting and realistic handling. But there are some aspects of the current tyre model that do not change in the same way as a real tyre, for example with changes in pressure or load. This is due to the lateral deformation of the tyre's carcass (the cords and wires encased in rubber that hold its shape).

So my current focus is to get the real time model's carcass deformation to be a better approximation of reality. It's different with every tyre but there are of course common things between all radial tyres. LFS tyres won't be exactly like any particular real tyre but they need to be good tyres and obviously behave like ones that could exist.

So I've been looking at a tyre simulation to answer these questions. It's a sort of virtual tyre test rig I've had for a long time but it needed some improvements. It represents the cords and belts of a tyre held in shape by the tyre's pressure. The general idea is to make that simulation a good approximation of reality, so it can fill in the gaps, giving me more answers than I can get from the various real world test results I can get my hands on. It doesn't run in real time, and takes a couple of minutes to run its tests and generate the results. It's in those periods I've been checking my email and some post notifications have sent me in here to see what's up.

I don't mind the usual criticism but when I see sarcastic or insulting posts then I'm tempted to react, either as a developer or a moderator... when it gets too annoying, I guess I'll unsubscribe again.

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

This is actually what most people want, feedback from the developers, not months-long silence. Just stating the obvious

Spot on! I really hope devs does this in future too, just keeps us even a bit updated. I though LFS is going down becose lack of interest from devs, but now I know they really are working hard. Small bits of info every once in a while is only thing we ask.

Quote from Amynue :

Why we can't see them in Z28 patch?

I know it's off-topic but:
Z28 is supposed to be compatible with Z and Z25. If you change the 3D model, it won't be compatible anymore.
This is my guess...

@Scawen thank you for your hard work on that patch and your progress report
We would obviously all be happy to know what's Eric doing with new content (New cars in S3? New interiors Finished? Rockingham and Westhill update?) and people tend to ask you because he doesn't post in the forums...

Thanks a lot for letting us know what you are working on Scawen !

I'm impressed by the detail you're putting into it. One of your sentences caught my eye.

Quote from Scawen :

So my current focus is to get the real time model's carcass deformation to be a better approximation of reality. It's different with every tyre but there are of course common things between all radial tyres. LFS tyres won't be exactly like any particular real tyre but they need to be good tyres and obviously behave like ones that could exist.

Would it be possible to make the different tyres brand have different caracteristics ? In terms of Carcass deformation for example. Do you plan on doing it at a later stage down the road ?

Scawen, you wouldn't have any "cool" graphical output from that rig for the interrested nerd? I'm kinda amazed by the amount of detail you seem to simulate.

Still wondering what sources / literature you used for your model

Anyway, thank for the update.

As I read your last post, it looks like a very sophisticated tyre model. And that's great! Thanks for the updates

Will the new physics affect the sysreqs much? I'm using an 8 years old machine, so it's a crucial point for me

Quote from Scawen :

I don't mind the usual criticism but when I see sarcastic or insulting posts then I'm tempted to react, either as a developer or a moderator... when it gets too annoying, I guess I'll unsubscribe again.

I'm sorry if you found my original reply about the tires insulting, but sarcasm is just something that I do all the time and it wasn't aimed specifically to hurt you. Other than the sarcasm, the post was "tire progress" related and factual (with my prick-ish attitude thrown in, but no different than I would say to anyone over MSN/IRC or in real life ).

Guess if that makes it unwelcome I'll try to filter my words better. However, just like you I am susceptible to what other people do and say, and a part of the reason for sarcasm was that genuinelly - the last attempt at fixing/adjusting the tire physics was a bit of a failure and went directly against what you usually stand for (and what I respect) and that is "We will not release unfinished/half-done/band-aid updates just for the sake of being on time".

Quote from Live For Kill :

Will the new physics affect the sysreqs much? I'm using an 8 years old machine, so it's a crucial point for me

I'd like to know that too. Playing with laptop at 1920x1080 resolution (laptop connected to 42" tv)

And fps is now about 40-60.

If the new physics makes the computer do more calculations, it's safe to say that PC's who struggling with LFS today will have a harder time after the patch. However.. there might be a chance that they have found some easier way / more optimized way of doing these calculations, and therfor will not be noticeable change on the performance.

However, I have no clue, just wild guessing.

Quote from scipy :

[snip] Guess if that makes it unwelcome I'll try to filter my words better. However, just like you I am susceptible to what other people do and say, and a part of the reason for sarcasm was that genuinelly - the last attempt at fixing/adjusting the tire physics was a bit of a failure and went directly against what you usually stand for (and what I respect) and that is "We will not release unfinished/half-done/band-aid updates just for the sake of being on time".

Living in a foreign country for several years that did not get sarcasm at all (in english) helped me to learn to filter and water down my natural sarcasm Often in life less is more.

I think with the length of time and delays that we can safely assume that Scawen is not hurrying to release an update prematurely...

@ Scawen It's very interesting to hear more detail about the tyre model and specifically the 'tyre test rig' you coded some time ago and are improving on. I picked up on it when you first mentioned it (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=52909#post52909) but had no idea how detailed it was then and what you are doing with it now. Sounds intriguing I hope your getting some satisfaction and enjoyment out of the process, I look forward to seeing the results when they a ready

Quote from Scawen :

If you want to state that I have contempt for the community, then ideally you should give an example.

In fact, I'm working very hard to produce a tyre model that will stand up to the detailed scrutiny of our well-informed community, both in terms of driving feel and physical analysis.

It involves a lot of investigation, reading, experimentation and verification.

man, i was wondering just how below the belt i had to go to prompt a response.

i'll back in a few months, maybe more, to see if we have had progress

Tyre stuff sounds like interesting work. Looking forward to seeing the results.

Quote from obzelite :

man, i was wondering just how below the belt i had to go to prompt a response.

i'll back in a few months, maybe more, to see if we have had progress

In other words, you're a moron.

Interesting comments Scawen. Looking forward to trying the fruits of your labour.

I got this burning question for you Scawen, how about tire treads? I mean, different tread shapes, the groves in the tire I mean, are they called treads? If so, would the car behave like they got certain treads? If so, you would have to make a texture like that, or even a 3d modeled tread right? I would also be awesome if there were other treads for other kinds of roads, like offroading, or just for different styles. Any info about what I mean? Not really asked this how I have it in mind, but I think it's about what I mean...

@Bose321: Huh? There already are offroad threads

Quote from Flame CZE :

@Bose321: Huh? There already are offroad threads

I know, that's what I mean I fail at explaining it. Are the offroad theyres just different grip levels with an other texture, or are they really differently coded, like a offroad tread which results in more grip at gravel, and less on tarmac.