Quote from Matrixi :

99.9% of the car models in that site are simply ripped from other games and converted in to LFS, the vast majority of them seem to have been done by kids still in pre-puberty. Hardly a measure of how skilled one is in modelling and texturing a car.

I'm all for releasing modding tools, but that horrible site is NOT to be used as any kind of example what would benefit from it. Definately not.

A lot of "hate" for....emm...mentioning a site that makes mods for the game we all love ?
What does age has to do with anything ? If someone is talented than he is talented...IT DOES not matter if you are 40,50,60 years old if you simply don't have the skill and talent.And MOST of those cars are actually made from scratch by the way.And if some were partially converted so what ?Some of Rfactor 's best content was converted from GPL but was also greatly improved.For example isle of man,nurburing,targa florio,magny course,rouen....All initial track versions were made for gpl and then had all the textures and many of the models in there fully updated with super high res high polygon model versions....

It sounds you scorn anything that isn't official and that's is not fair.Have you ever tryed to actually model or texture anything ? If not,have in mind that it needs a great deal of work,skill,patience and yes talent. And even the best modeler and texturer cannot do everything by themselves.The main reason i took the time to make posts here were exactly the fact i found that there were people that took the time and had the talent to make all those things.And i am not talkiing just for the mod cars but also for texture updates like the Revolution pack Lynce made or the track updates by Electric Kar...These people give a breath of life in lfs until more content and the physics updates are complete..
Also if you read my posts i have the opinion that for the moment no new cars should be added for compatibility reasons BUT the existing cars can simply be remodeled by some high quality models.And simply check the "actual" lfs cars in MODDB.There is a nice integra dc2,a toyota celica gt4,a 911,a mr2,some fiats(only a stalion missing).Those models are already quite good so a "contest making the best-minus the badges" would lead to an even better versions of those car mods.

Quote from Amynue :

Yeah, who needs physics in simulator? It's so useless.

What I'm trying to tell is that you can upgrade the handling of this game and probably attract more players but that only worsens online day to day racing because most people don't actually know how to race.

Cruise servers are more populated these days then normal race servers (if you don't include demo), I think that says a lot.

I'm not saying that physics is not important but having the focus on that for two full years now and no idea where it ends... Thats pretty poor resources planning to be honest.

And you can call it negative, sarcastic, time consuming or whatever you want but I'd rather call it realistic. With a little attention to other parts of the game there is so much to gain. When doing small updates the game is also more frequently in the news and that is very important for expanding the daily user base.

The updates at the end of last year, that was very good. Don't listen to the people who complained about that, being not enough.

justasimfan - I think that all content and development of LFS should be only done by the official developers. For example, rFactor, which is open for modifications, is proclaimed as a simulator with good physics & content sometimes, although the original version itself is different in many ways.

The developers of LFS chose this way to not allow any modifications to be officialy in the game and develop this simulator on their own (although they can change their minds later, yes). They are a team of 3 people for say 7 years and it seems, that it works. In my opinion, the LFS developers will always be careful, when they are given an opportunity to add another car or a track, and, as it seems, they don't add all content, which is offered by others, and they will work at their own pace, because they are not that much time limited.

It's mainly up to the developers what they choose to develop and what are they focused on. Now it's the tyre physics, which need to be done, then they can move onto other aspects that need to be added/developed. The more is the development of LFS complicated and sophisticated, the more time it takes, that's logical.

Quote from cargame.nl :

What I'm trying to tell is that you can upgrade the handling of this game and probably attract more players but that only worsens online day to day racing because most people don't actually know how to race.

...

People should be aware of the fact that LFS is a simulator, so they will probably have to learn to drive/race properly for some time.

Update the physics, improve the environment detail and add more environments then I think you will find that there will be no problem finding racers in LFS.

Physics is one of the areas that is vital to LFS's future, we also know they do have one laser scanned track (improved environement) we don't know if they plan to add further environments but I'd be suprised if they don't have a few things up their sleave...

Ok let me rephrase that.. People think they know how to race.

They indeed need to learn, but where? Some drivers still don't know how to participate in a race after 10.000 laps. If you ban those people, like IHR does.. You will end up with a game nobody wants to play anymore.

Drivers need to be penalized when they damage the car of another racer. EQ Worry delivers some great InSim programming work but some things in the game need to be changed for real proper racing.

I thought this game is a race simulator, it more looks like a very unfinished driving simulator now.

Just race in leagues. There's plenty; and more to choose from when physics improve. Persistent wreckers are removed by league admins, a much better alternative to any kind of software regulation.

Quote from Amynue :

Tell that to Eric.

:scared:

I didn't mean to sound that harsh, I meant that we just need more. LFS is great, the physics is ok, but the actually things to drive on lacks. That, is at least for me the biggest problem, as the physics currently are - ok.

Quote from cargame.nl :

What I'm trying to tell is that you can upgrade the handling of this game and probably attract more players but that only worsens online day to day racing because most people don't actually know how to race.

Cruise servers are more populated these days then normal race servers (if you don't include demo), I think that says a lot.

No it doesn't.

Quote from justasimfan :

A lot of "hate" for....emm...mentioning a site that makes mods for the game we all love ?

Discussion about that site is actually not encouraged here since the mods are inofficial and not supported by the devs so you should stop writing about it in every of your posts.

Yeah, to be honest I think it's true that people are too penalized for crashing into other racers.

I mean, let's look at it this way - LFS is a racing simulator, and crashes happen, and when they do, the organizer doesn't come onto the track and shoot, kick the driver etc.

Whether the driver who caused the crash on purpose or not is what makes the game fun. If the racer who got crashed into gets angry or whatever, he should just quit the game anyway....

Quote from tristancliffe :

In other words, you're a moron.

Interesting comments Scawen. Looking forward to trying the fruits of your labour.

well lets face it, being anything other than you is a plus.

I understand the delay due to the seek of perfection, but what's the point of having super realistic tyre behaviour when many other things haven't been introduced yet? Other things that also interfere with real life racing like weather and night racing. There's also brake failure due to heat, oil leaks, turbos damaged, clutch wear, non simulated engine sounds and the likes.

I truly understand that this part of development needs time for research and so on but I also think that some effort could already have been put into other important things as well.

I'm not saying Scavier should do this or that, it's their game and i respect that, but I think LFS is letting other titles get the medals while we crawl on the shadow...

Anyways, not wanting to be read as a moaner, which I'm not, I'll finish this words with a big thank you for your hard work knowing that some of my wishes will become real in a near future!

Keep it up Scavier!

Quote from obzelite :

well lets face it, being anything other than you is a plus.

What being a quite well of successful racing driver? I think not.

Quote from LSDBlackWolf :

I understand the delay due to the seek of perfection, but what's the point of having super realistic tyre behaviour when many other things haven't been introduced yet?

You have to start somewhere.

There's really food for thought when you wonder whether no physics updates for well over a year is justified by tyre physics development when LFS doesn't have any sort of aero damage or three dimensional suspension movement.
Tyre physics only get you so far when e.g. a trailing arm rear suspension can't move laterally during cornering.

However, that's obviously Scawen's design decision to make, so I won't go deeper into this discussion.

Vain

Quote from Vain :

There's really food for thought when you wonder whether no physics updates for well over a year is justified by tyre physics development when LFS doesn't have any sort of aero damage or three dimensional suspension movement.
Tyre physics only get you so far when e.g. a trailing arm rear suspension can't move laterally during cornering.

However, that's obviously Scawen's design decision to make, so I won't go deeper into this discussion.

Vain

It would seem to me to be quite logical to get the final point of interaction for virtually all of a vehicles forces to function properly before spending a lot of time on details higher up.

Quote from PoVo :

LFS is a racing simulator, and crashes happen, and when they do, the organizer doesn't come onto the track and shoot, kick the driver etc.

You obviously watch not enough races.

I recommend reading the black flag section;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing_flags

Drivers who race online are even less careful, stronger regulation is required. Not with human control but with system logic. Drivers must realize they need to brake and be careful when yellow flag is raised. I only see very few people actually lifting gas / paying attention right now.

Tire physics alone wont change attitude. People get bored more easily from other racers then the way a car handles.

This thread seemed to have got back on topic (been avoiding it for ages), finally there is talk about the progress in tyre phycis but most off you keep going off topic...

Yes, there are other issues, please lets discuss them in a relevant thread.

Quote from Scawen :

If you want to post here, stay on topic.

Quote from LSDBlackWolf :

...but what's the point of having super realistic tyre behaviour when many other things haven't been introduced yet? Other things that also interfere with real life racing like weather and night racing. There's also brake failure due to heat, oil leaks, turbos damaged, clutch wear...

That is a fair question and it's probably shared by many people. I agree those changing elements you mention would make racing more interesting.

But... most important in my opinion and many others is to get the cars feeling right and handling right. We would say, what is the point of having things that change your car when it never felt right in the first place?

LFS without the tyre updates is already an approximation of reality, good enough to enjoy, learn something about cars and do plenty of competitive racing. But there are situations where the car doesn't really do the right things. The response to some of the changes in setup and also finer points about what a car does when you turn the steering wheel and apply the throttle. It may sound fussy but these are the things you feel every second while racing. Personally I have found when testing for example an LX car around South City Chicase route, more excitement with the version I have, even got kind of hot and sweaty a few times just driving one car in practice mode as I started to drive several laps for no real reason. Getting hot and sweaty isn't necessarily a good thing in itself... But I took it as a good sign.

Anyway, even at that point, further research into the things I still knew were not finished, showed up more things and that's what brought me onto the more detailed study of carcass deformation. This year and a half of tyre model development really have been one thing leading to another, though as you know there were other things that took some of my time during that year and a half. So the tyre model updates are the results of several months but not as long as some people imagine.

Quote from Scawen :

It doesn't run in real time, and takes a couple of minutes to run its tests and generate the results. It's in those periods I've been checking my email and some post notifications have sent me in here to see what's up.

Scawen, I think you need to optimize it.. so there's less time for you to ban or give me infractions.

Quote from Scawen :

Personally I have found when testing for example an LX car around South City Chicase route, more excitement with the version I have, even got kind of hot and sweaty a few times just driving one car in practice mode as I started to drive several laps for no real reason. Getting hot and sweaty isn't necessarily a good thing in itself... But I took it as a good sign.

Oh yeah. Thats a brilliant sign!

Keep at it. With every post this update seems better and better!

Quote from DevilDare :

Oh yeah. Thats a brilliant sign!

Keep at it. With every post this update seems better and better!

Bogus that Scawen gets an epically fun version of LFS, while we're stuck with Z28...

This is developer favoritism at its finest!

:hide:

Quote from dawesdust_12 :

Bogus that Scawen gets an epically fun version of LFS, while we're stuck with Z28...

This is developer favoritism at its finest!

:hide:

Haha. I wanted to say something on that.

"So thats whats been taking so long! You're just playing it all day long!"

But then I changed my mind.

I figured if I suck up enough, he will let me play it too.

Quote from Scawen :

Personally I have found when testing for example an LX car around South City Chicase route, more excitement with the version I have, even got kind of hot and sweaty a few times just driving one car in practice mode as I started to drive several laps for no real reason. Getting hot and sweaty isn't necessarily a good thing in itself... But I took it as a good sign.

You realize how sadic this is to us?
And yea for me getting hot and sweaty when playing LFS means I'm having fun

Quote from DevilDare :

I figured if I suck up enough, he will let me play it too.

I'm just gonna turn up around his place with beer and cake.. hope that's a good enough bribe.