ok i just like to start by saying this is not a demo hater thread, i'm a member of cargames.nl and we have a popular server for demo users to use.

i used demo for a few "years" back in the day, and because i was impressed bought the game got more content and the devs got alittle pay rise aswell lol.

my question is this. demo is like s0 if you will..... you can play as long as you want with 3 cars and one track (iirc). people play it for years, and even tho demo players in some cases do go on the buy the game and support the devs and development, some dont. they have played for years will continue too.

so.... should the demo version be restricted so once people have tried and tested lfs they have to buy to continue to play?

limited number of laps / time maybe?

again not a demo flame, just wanted to know peoples opinions. after all DEMO is demo.

no.
a lot ppl cant afford it (like i couldnt for over a year) or are fine with the free content.

the demo users dont do harm when they play longer.
actually, the long time demo'ers usually behave better than new ones.

an even there was a limit, ppl would get around it.
im just not seeing the point.
forcing ppl to buy something isnt any good.

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

no.
a lot ppl cant afford it (like i couldnt for over a year) or are fine with the free content.

the demo users dont do harm when they play longer.
actually, the long time demo'ers usually behave better than new ones.

an even there was a limit, ppl would get around it.
im just not seing the point.
forcing ppl to buy something isnt any good.

+1

It should stay as it is now

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

forcing ppl to buy something isnt any good.

Its not forcing ... eh.

I would say, a 60min timelimit for multiplayer and unlimited for singleplayer. Should be fairly easy to do, not so crackable and yeah ... that would fair compared to the current situation. It needs to be restricted.

In the past, it has been clearly spelled out why the demo is the way it is. By the people who made it so. At the time, there were plenty of people voicing their opinion, those opinions pretty much covered the spectrum of all possible opinions, from "I don't care" to ... ah well, nevermind.

Why anyone would want to dig up this old hat is beyond me, the only possible results will be the fizzle of tired responses you got already, or exactly what you are trying so hard to avoid, namely a demo flame war. In any case, a reasonable effort at forum search should give more than enough opinions, the whole range of it, up and down several times over.

Quote from hazaky :

I would say, a 60min timelimit for multiplayer and unlimited for singleplayer. Should be fairly easy to do, not so crackable and yeah ... that would fair compared to the current situation. It needs to be restricted.

No, because they'd create a new nickname to be able to play online again.

Quote from John Hilton :

so.... should the demo version be restricted so once people have tried and tested lfs they have to buy to continue to play?

limited number of laps / time maybe?

No, because they'd create a new nickname to be able to play again.

Quote from Gaiajohan :

No, because they'd create a new nickname to be able to play again.

like some don't already, they abuse them to disrupt servers.

Quote from hazaky :

Its not forcing ... eh.

it is...what else?
if ud have a timelimit that has expired and u want to play...u are forced to buy it.

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

it is...what else?
if ud have a timelimit that has expired and u want to play...u are forced to buy it.

To keep playing, purchasing the game would be required under the OP's suggestion, but nobody is forced to do anything. There's a big difference.

I like the idea of limiting the demo. I'd do it by limiting the number of laps you're allowed to race online to say 100. After that you could continue to play demo combos offline, or choose to buy a license.

That's how I'd do it, but I'm obviously not as generous as the devs are.

I think limiting the lap-count or having a time based online demo period is fair.
I'm going to quote someone from that I was on last night,
"How can something that is free be unfair?"

I fully agree with that quote and I'm going to apply it here.

If you are not willing to pay for the game then, in my strong opinion you do not have the rights to complain. Kinda like the voting system yes? You don't vote, you get no say.

The demo accounts are fairly limited, with only 3 cars, 3 tracks and no legit way of uploading a skin it must get very boring for you guys, which does hint that some people just do not have the money to pay for the game. But say, if the demo was limited to 500 laps per car & track combo that is 2500 laps (3000 FBM + BL2) and after you have played them laps hopefully you would have had enough time to put a couple of €/£/$ away to then buy the game because the limit would have spurred you on to be able to keep your online statistics and user-name.

Quote from jakeeatworld :

I think limiting the lap-count or having a time based online demo period is fair.
I'm going to quote someone from that I was on last night,
"How can something that is free be unfair?"

Well first, I don't see What It is hurting for us to be racing one track with three cars (Four if you count all the configurations) I mean, I haven't been here all that long, But surely it's been like this for a long time.. What changed so recently?

Second... What about the kids with their moms (OK, I'm probably REALLY stretching this out, But meh) Won't buy them any games, I think it would be very sad to see our community say "No.. Sorry.. But you've done your time.. Pay or leave" I mean, It's perfectly Legal, Nothing can say it isn't, You haven't payed for it anyway, But it seems very unfair to the people on the other end of it, Which raises my question again; What exactly does it hurt..?

Sorta neutral on this idea now..

(Who likes time restricted/action restricted demos anyway? =P)

Doing such a thing would mean LFS losing one of its best features.

LFS also has a very unique demo community. Put some kinds of limits on the demo and demo leagues are history. Demo leagues are history and demo racers won't really have a good understanding of the wonderful leagues in S2.

There have been many demoers for whom it took many years to buy S2. Some people need more time to decide or gather the money. If the demo is locked after a short time, it is likely that they lose interest.

And then there's the fact that if not only the licenced content is locked but also the DEMO content is locked, many more people will start looking for cracks or workarounds, which is likely to lead them into unlocking all of the content. This will change the current demo community into an underground movement and may even lead to another master server for crackers. And with all the content available, S2 doesn't seem so attractive anymore

All in all, having a no-limits demo is very good as demo users have time to really get to know the game itself and the community playing it.

i think no, because LFS is not kind of game, i`m sorry - simulator, u can fully figure out and relish 100% in short period of time. The longer someone is demo user, the better skill is reaches, therefore desire grows to try more powerful cars with different tracks

delray25 this isn't a demo flame war at all, i just wanted peoples opinions. sorry your offended.

Demo users plz note, you are most welcome to use the the S0 cargame.nl demo server.

just wanted to know what demo users and S users thought.

our forums for demo are here:

http://www.cargame.nl/forum/demo-server/

no offence intended

Admin plz lock thx

I do not see why anyone would respond angrily at an attempt to open a discussion about demo. You think there's nothing to discuss, everything is perfect, healthy, with many years ahead? Wow, you're an optimist then. It could be so, but I do not believe it.

I personally care a lot about demo. I believe it is the core of LFS. Without healthy demo scene there'll be no new blood on licensed servers, and everyone would probably agree new blood is needed there, a lot. Thinking about demo should be a priority then, not some sideway matter.

Two and a half years ago there was a major change in demo. Reversed BL tracks were removed and unavailable to demo people. From my perspective, the effects of this action were purely negative. A large community, especially around BL2R was simply killed. A few bought S2, but most simply left LFS. It was a major blow and nobody will convince me it was not so. Since that day I see decline in LFS.

Except for one or two more smaller patches things did not move anywhere for two years now. In the past months, several times I was proposing to developers some changes to be made. Changes that would take from 5 minutes to one day max (estimate) to incorporate. Changes that could improve demo, breath new life there. There was no response.

My ideas for improvements:

1) Open again BL1R and BL2R for demo people. Closing down the tracks was bad for LFS, in my eyes, opening them again should have opposite effect.

2) Maybe limit demo usage by time, say to 3 or 6 months. When the time expires, gathered stats are completely erased and the demo username blocked, probably indefinitely. Sure, people can get new name, but at least stats on LFSW would be under control, which should make Victor happy.

3) If point 2 would be accepted, it would be cool to have an option to get real S0 licence. Unlimited demo usage, without time restriction, for something like 3 pounds. Many people would be willing to give this much. And many admins would be willing to organize demo series with S0 licences to the winners, simply because they're cheap. (Because how many demo competitions a year you can run if promising S2 licence to the winner?)

From my perspective, the above changes could have substantial positive impact and I do not think they involve extreme amount of work. Scawen needs only to open the tracks again. Victor would have a tougher job, but I believe it is mostly database manipulation and it could be workable.

Of course I may be wrong, both in assuming it would be good for LFS and in assuming it is not too much work for developers. But how could I or anyone else know if we do not try and if developers do not respond? My apologies to anyone who feels enraged by such proposals, but I see them as beneficial.

There can never be something wrong with opening a mature discussion John, don't feel quilty :detective

As far as I am concerned, I played demo for about half a year. For me it would not have been usefull to restrict demo-use to (for example) 100 laps coz I simply couldn't control any demo-car after 100 laps :shhh:

When I saw improvement (at last lol) I got interested in getting the S2 license. I feel that this goes for more (average) users. So if restricted usage would ever be subject, then I would agree with EQ Worry's second suggestion.

On the other hand I see a LOT of S0-racers who race very good and very fair. Would be a big loss, and a shame, if they were lost due to obligatory payment, even a payment for only a few bucks...

So.... a dilemma... :tempted:

PS Admin please DON'T lock this thread

Quote from [RCG]Boosted :

it is...what else?
if ud have a timelimit that has expired and u want to play...u are forced to buy it.

No, its not forcing ... not even close to it. Its just that if u like the game, u will buy it. With demo, u can see how the game looks, how it plays and all kinds of stuff - and if u like it, then buy it. Demo is supposed to be a preview of the game.

there is alot of game that provide an unlimited demo usage offline/online

dont push them to pay for play it will just take longuer before they purchase a license

i played 2 years on demo then someone temporary gave me his account ... when he took it back i had achieved too much on s2 to go back on demo so i bought the game ....

to realy push ppl to purchase s2 ... it would be a s2 time trial ... which is impossible to do

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Yet all you guys posting are S2'd, I don't have the money to buy it yet, Not on my card, At least, And it would be very unfair for me as i have already ran 400+ laps in a XFG (I believe) So.. Wtf? I'd instantly get kicked off or something? D=

And secondly.. Why do you need to change something if it isn't broken..?

don't you think that because you have 400+ "free" laps, it's unfair to the people who have paid for the game. a demo is meant to impress you enough to buy the full game. now, lets break the cost of LFS down a bit. it's £24 for S2 and £12 for S1. if you saved £1 per week, you'd have the money for LFS S1 in 3 months. S2 in 6 months. some demo users have been playing the demo for years on an internet connection that cost about the same as LFS S2 per month.
can't you see that 400+ laps on a demo is way more than enough to encourage you to buy the S2 content? having no money on your card is not LFS' problem.
imo, the demo should be restricted as already mentioned. i think my sig says it best.
EDIT: the way i see it, if you have no plans in buying LFS, then why should you have any content for an unlimited time?

Quote from EQ Worry :

snip

From my demo times(this was 3 years ago anyway, might have changed since then!) I recall thatB L1R and BL2R were not so much used. And anyway I don't really understand why the people disappointed with the scrap of BL2R didn't switch back on BL2.

Anyway I totally agree with the rest of the post. Mega +1 for the S0 license idea.

Limiting the demo is a bad idea, I played the demo for years off and on, I enjoyed it but never enough to really want to buy it. The reason I ended up buying S2 was because I made friends with a few people on a demo server. We made a little team and had a few long races but after that we wanted more, so 4-6 of us bought S2 while the rest already had it. If the demo was limited that would of been 4-6 S2 licenses that would never of been purchased.

Quote from 1Colin1 :

Limiting the demo is a bad idea, I played the demo for years off and on, I enjoyed it but never enough to really want to buy it. The reason I ended up buying S2 was because I made friends with a few people on a demo server. We made a little team and had a few long races but after that we wanted more, so 4-6 of us bought S2 while the rest already had it. If the demo was limited that would of been 4-6 S2 licenses that would never of been purchased.

or 4-6 S2 licenses bought sooner. a similar thing happened the ATC. but we only played the demo until S2 licenses were available. i was alread S1 licensed at the time.

Demo is what brings the majority here, Its why I have a S2 license.
I know a great deal of people that played the demo for around 6-12 months, some quite a lot, some play it longer some shorter. LFS didn't grab me straight away. It took around 9 months (and even then i downloaded a torrent)
And even with my l33t hax0ring skills i could not crack it.

Also its from a team of 3 developers, no major publisher, on-line purchase only. This would put a few people off to begin with and time limited even further, I know I was a little dubious. What sold me was LFSworld and the games integration, all those stats, history etc etc <3.

EQWorry all 3 points quite valid and some nice ideas. Demo LFSWorld Support is I think or should be a premium feature.

anyway... carry on>

Well, my own opinion is that there still is a large demo community in every area of the demo game, from the car park(lolwut :shrug to FBM @ BL1 and XFG @ Rallyx, hell I think theres even a (small) community for driving FBM @ BL2. Yeah maybe people quit LFS, but thats usually how a demo works anyway. I don't really know much about LFS demo back in the old times, but I think the demo community is far from dead atm so I don't see how the BL1R and BL2R thing being removed has damaged the whole of lfs. However you obviously felt strongly enough to attempt to make those reversed demo servers via airio in the past and I'm pretty sure your knowledge of demo is better than mine, so I guess I'd have to see it to realise what you mean .

The S0 idea sounds good, and could raise a little bit of money for the dev's I guess. However, there are various projects for demo players supported by the LFS devs(or atleast I think it is) such as Maailman nopein kansa which attract huge numbers to LFS demo. If the BL1R/BL2R thing damaged LFS, then surely the S0 thing which would probably damage that project would damage LFS as a whole a lot more. Also you'd have to wonder whether S0 would even get bought that much, I mean with the younger generation of LFS players they probably have to prove they actually like the game for a period of time before there parents will let them use there credit cards etc to buy it, I know that was the case with me anyways. If it was S0 or S2 it probably wouldn't have made a difference to when I actually payed for anything, and I still would have got S2. I'd have just used different license names for a year .

So I guess I'm saying leave it as it is, but I do think something could be done with the demo area to improve it for everybody and maybe the S0 idea could work if it was refined a bit, idk