Don't be like that he is a valued might be buyer of LFS ..

Quote from richo :

Don't be like that he is a valued might be buyer of LFS ..

I seriously doubt in that opinion. This is what everyone in this thread says who think that demo should stay as it is (right?). Well, i believe that those 95% of demoers will keep playing and enjoying the game (not trying the game!)

Btw that was an attempt at sarcasm, i must have'd failed though.


Look after the people that entertainment you Demo pplz, that is all.

To keep the demo at a "demo status".. I would suggest to Scawen an online check every 30 minutes or so to keep the hacking away. I think they might underestimate the number of users that get much more content then they deserve. And I agree with you guys when you're saying that the demo might be limited or more restricted because it's kinda absurd that a game got almost twice as demo users as customers.

I remember when patch Y came out, a guy told me something like: Oh they take away the XRT to replace it with a FBMW.. well I guess after 2 years it's time to leave LFS."

This is not normal

Maybe Scavier are being too generous after all.. but some peoples will always complain and in this current situation, doesn't matter much as most of them aren't going to support the sim anyway. The demo is better than most sims so most of them got used to it as a free little game.

A feature I though before would be to allow licensed users to race with licenced cars onto demo server, which would become mixed servers. That way demo users could see and race against other type or cars and would be much more tease to try them online. The servers would separate the result in Classes, just like we got in real life such as Grand Touring, AMLMS, etc.. so a demo user could win in his own category just like was used to in the past.

That feature would also make populated races easier to find at certain hours I presume.

My two cents..

I think this is why this game is so good and so appreciate.

Is better have a lot of demo user that could be potential customer or nothing?

And then is a way to increase potential customers, 'cause demo user invite friends to race online and more people are involved, more people buy.

I´d be interested to see some stats about sold S2 licences in a few month if the devs would restrict the overall demo hosts to 5 only - instead of the actual number of 200.
Sayed that, I have no problem with long-terms or any demo racer arround and believe as well in the motto "Never change a winning team".

Just a few quick thoughts, all completely my error-prone views:

1) You'll not improve LFS user base by limiting demo in any way. Maybe 25% demo people will get a kind of licence, but 75% will simply disappear. Would you be happy if instead of 300/500 ratio of licensed/demo people there is 400/0? Would that be good for the future of LFS?

2) The are many demo people that are not interested in anything else. Price is not a problem, but they have their community and do not look for more (e.g. because of time spent in LFS). Limit demo and the communities will disintegrate.

3) If LFS was in a healthy state with ever expanding content and user base, you could think about limitations. But it is static for a long time now, that's why I'm proposing the opposite to limitations, to create new conditions for growth.

Well, sometimes I feel like devil's advocate, going against the tide... But it is my opinion. Wouldn't it be great if developers had any comment?

Quote from EQ Worry :

Just a few quick thoughts, all completely my error-prone views:

1) You'll not improve LFS user base by limiting demo in any way. Maybe 25% demo people will get a kind of licence, but 75% will simply disappear. Would you be happy if instead of 300/500 ratio of licensed/demo people there is 400/0? Would that be good for the future of LFS?

a demo that does not impress you enough for you to buy the full version is a demo that doesn't work. if 75% of demo users who do not plan to buy the game disappear then LFS has lost nothing. 75% of 0 is 0.

Quote from EQ Worry :

2) The are many demo people that are not interested in anything else. Price is not a problem, but they have their community and do not look for more (e.g. because of time spent in LFS). Limit demo and the communities will disintegrate.

sorry bud but i don't believe this one. a team that plays only demo lfs are restricting themselves.

Quote from EQ Worry :

3) If LFS was in a healthy state with ever expanding content and user base, you could think about limitations. But it is static for a long time now, that's why I'm proposing the opposite to limitations, to create new conditions for growth.

physics and graphical updates are all the demo should get imo. no more extra cars or tracks because it's a demo. in its current state, you get a fwd tin top, a rwd tin top and a single seater. which is more or less a taste of all the car groups that lfs has to offer........when does a demo stop being a demo and start being a game?

Quote from EQ Worry :

Well, sometimes I feel like devil's advocate, going against the tide... But it is my opinion. Wouldn't it be great if developers had any comment?

i don't see how a comment from a dev would change anybodies opinion on this matter.
i think that the demo should be either kept as it is or restricted. nothing extra in terms of content should be added.

I think we're talking about two different things here. All that I'm suggesting is aimed at keeping and widening the LFS community, getting the "new blood" and bringing back the old one. I believe it is the more important thing today, starting in demo, where changes could be simple yet far-reaching. From this perspective, 75% of demo people is immense force, half the life in current LFS.

If you're saying that 75% of 0 is still 0, you take the pure money approach, and, simply put, I do not believe it will work, especially in the long run. Yes, a few hundred people will get license if forced to, which could make devs happy, but LFS community as a whole would suffer and bear the consequences.

Of course a view of one of the core developers would help, because it should be backed by tangible data. For example, what was the license buy rate and demo/licensed people online numbers before BL1R and BL2R were taken out of demo and after? Did it mean any change of tendency, and in what direction? What is the current tendency? They should know.

at the end of the day. the devs need to make money. it's not that i am taking the money approach. i'm taking the only approach a business can take to still be here in the future.
yes 75% is alot. but if 75% of your potential customers have no plans on buying your product, then why should you give them more? if that's the case, everyone could boycott LFS and get S3 for free. and again, nobody is forcing anyone to buy LFS.
your problem is that you're looking at LFS as a community when infact it's actually a business. the devs have a product, they are selling this product. it's not charity, and even if it was, that 75% of demo racers wouldn't donate.
don't get caught up on the community side of LFS. at the end of the day, we're only paying customers. yes we have a little bit of input, but if we were not here, the beta testers would have this covered and lfs would take longer to finish.
aas my mother would say, "beggers can't be choosers". if you want more, you gotta pay (she never said that bit ). and that's the bottom line.

I somehow like the idea although I would set the limit much higher at around 500 or 1000 laps.

Though I don't think that would be a good idea. It has been like it is for far too long now to change. LFS would only be more aimed at than now. Politically this suggestion is pretty much nonesense if you ask me.

Quote from Skytrill :

A feature I thought before would be to allow licensed users to race with licenced cars onto demo server, which would become mixed servers. That way demo users could see and race against other type or cars and would be much more tease to try them online. The servers would separate the result in Classes, just like we got in real life such as Grand Touring, AMLMS, etc.. so a demo user could win in his own category just like was used to in the past.

Now this sounds very, very interesting, but not really possible with 11 total cars on grid.

I thought about something similar too. Allow them to spectate S2 races and drool.
That would kind of force a very large percent to get licensed without frustrations and drama of more limitations.

Now that would be what you call a demo. A demo of the "real" thing. As in spectating and not being able to take part.

But I guess that would be a whole new approach, and I`m not so sure an easy one.

Quote from Skytrill :

A feature I though before would be to allow licensed users to race with licenced cars onto demo server, which would become mixed servers. That way demo users could see and race against other type or cars and would be much more tease to try them online. The servers would separate the result in Classes, just like we got in real life such as Grand Touring, AMLMS, etc.. so a demo user could win in his own category just like was used to in the past.

That would be really cool, I'd honestly love to see some Demo VS S2 / S1 Would be a curbstomp with XFG and XRG maybe compared to the GT and .. What the other cars are called.. GT2? GTR? But yeah, That'd be really interesting but then you would have to open (Maybe) Up the faster tracks, As S2 users probably would feel pretty dumbed down if all they got to drive in their fast cars was blackwood, However, I personally love blackwood and I guess alot of S2 racers do.

But if you stage it.. It doesn't really sound right, Like, What class would the XFG/XRG be in, Road Cars? Or would they be in the XRG/(Insert middle car here) XRT.

And honestly, Wouldn't you be able to draft the faster cars and set blazing PB's with no chance for Demo VS. Demo to compete with? Or are the other cars so fast the demo cars would have no chance? Obviously, I don't know about that, But still, That would be SWEET

But what about demo users taking over for the S2 cars?

Quote from dadge :

i'm taking the only approach a business can take to still be here in the future. ... your problem is that you're looking at LFS as a community when infact it's actually a business. ... don't get caught up on the community side of LFS. at the end of the day, we're only paying customers

Man, doesn't it sound depressing? I concede you may be right, but it would be so sad. You know, I do not believe devs created and were updating LFS for the business side of it, to make money. I still think it was for the fun and good time they had, with incoming money as an after-effect and not primary intention. But of course it may be an idealistic view, the same one that applies to me and Airio development.

But in the long run, you're probably right. If we had active development going on, serious updates appearing every few months, then I'd say it is a business, there could be a fee for the updates and many people would pay gladly, demo could be restricted, because the weight of LFS would reside elsewhere.

But LFS is not business now, in my eyes, because the "busy" side of the matter is gone. I think it only keeps running thanks to the community, especially the demo community, and that's why I think it is so important and worth direct support and boost. LFS today stands strongly on demo.

Final general note: Please understand that with my views and proposals to give more to demo people I'm not trying to enrage anyone. They are just proposals based on what I see and what I think would be good for LFS as a whole. Everyone is perfectly entitled to have his own quite opposite opinions. All I hope for now is that devs will start to be active again and move things somewhere. Because some stirring is needed...

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

OK, the reason that I said that is because I really hope there isn't some trial period forced on demo users in the future, because that will just put the final nail in the coffin of the U.S. LFS community over here.

The biggest nail in the coffin for LFS in the states is your home grown iRacing & to a larger extent Rfactor. The amount of people over there that have never seen or heard of LFS amazes me, its almost as if it does not exist.

They might benefit from selling boxed copies but LFS is such a niche market everything else on the shelf is gona look more impressive. Saying that, they could go in at a much lower price point such as a boxed copy of S1. Another big selling point is that its an old engine that still runs on much older systems so they can appeal to a much wider (low spec) audience.

As for the restriction issue i would be in favour of all demo accounts being cancelled automoticaly after 12months. It's a tough call & you could argue what harm are they doing? If they play it a lot then they are only restricting themselfs from enjoying the full game.

Those that hack/crack the full content should all be sent NASTY viruses.

Quote from anttt69 :

The biggest nail in the coffin for LFS in the states is your home grown iRacing & to a larger extent Rfactor. The amount of people over there that have never seen or heard of LFS amazes me, its almost as if it does not exist.

True, the marketing is bad. Very bad.

If we have updates... We... The community... Can do something about it.

Writing news for news sites for example.

Quote from Skytrill :

A feature I though before would be to allow licensed users to race with licenced cars onto demo server, which would become mixed servers. That way demo users could see and race against other type or cars and would be much more tease to try them online. The servers would separate the result in Classes, just like we got in real life such as Grand Touring, AMLMS, etc.. so a demo user could win in his own category just like was used to in the past.

That feature would also make populated races easier to find at certain hours I presume.

I like very much this idea! It's pretty interesting and maybe Scawen should think about it for a while too :-)
Worth thinking in my opinion.

Hi i am demo user with lfs history about 6 years

i am suprised how annoying people exist, who wants something limited.

I think lfs have potential to be your game of life. If you stop demouser in the begining, never explore what lfs offers. With more lap come more taste to buy it.

Of course i buy S2 licence. But still waiting for new patch, or S3 and announced changes to buy for it corresponding hardware.

We dont talk about S2 licence only, you need updated computer with windows licence, wheel, pedal, maybe rig, you need great pair of socks, gloves too haha.

Pay for S2 licence is maybe 1/30 quantity money what you need for good sim racing and only to ready wish luck.

Quote from stiggycz :

Hi i am demo user with lfs history about 6 years


Of course i buy S2 licence. But still waiting for new patch, or S3

waiting 6 years for a patch? i doubt that. you're justifying why you have not made the purchase and gotten a S2 license.

Quote from stiggycz :

We dont talk about S2 licence only, you need updated computer with windows licence, wheel, pedal, maybe rig, you need great pair of socks, gloves too haha.

windows is something you will already have. to say you bought windows so you could play LFS is a massive exageration. everything else you can use with other games. so to say you bought those for LFS is again an exageration.

Quote from stiggycz :

Pay for S2 licence is maybe 1/30 quantity money what you need for good sim racing and only to ready wish luck.

LFS is an addition to your sim life. it is not the cause of your sim life.

I dislike the idea of restricting, because it will only make some people buy the game, but most won't.

And since it would be restricted, people who couldn't afford it at the time or wasn't interested in buy it at the time would eventually lose interest and LFS Devs would be losing money.

Now, I'm still a little new to LFS (Joined May 14, '10) but the Demo as it was got really boring for me.
I recently got S2 as a gift and I have loved it since.

If the Demo was restricted, I would have ran away immediately, because most restricted demos and up being suckish games NO MATTER WHAT.
^^

I would not be here right now if the Demo was restricted, and the thing that urged me to buy S2 was because of larger servers, more cars, and serious drivers like me. Also, the cruise servers were a huge plus to me.

~Patrick™

EDIT: Dadge and stiggycz, also I have heard that LFS runs on Linux, last time I checked it was true, so you wouldn't NEED Windows, you could run it on a free OS, good if you are on a Mac.

if the demo had a 6 month restriction. imo, you would have still bought the full game. you only used the demo for 3 months.
you're a perfect example of what the demo is meant to do. in the 3 months you used the demo. you had time to explore the game and come to the conclusion that if the demo is this good, how good is the full content. and by the sounds of it, you're loving it.
i don't think there's a user who wouldn't agree that LFS was one of their best purchases. alot of people say "it's the best £24 i've ever spent". i would even go as far as saying the guys who are saying "LFS is dead" would also agree that it was the best £24 they had spent for a game.
it frustrates me sometimes. it's like standing outside a nightclub saying the music rocked when you could buy a ticket, go inside and enjoy the music to its fullest.

Quote from dadge :

waiting 6 years for a patch? i doubt that. you're justifying why you have not made the purchase and gotten a S2 license.

windows is something you will already have. to say you bought windows so you could play LFS is a massive exageration. everything else you can use with other games. so to say you bought those for LFS is again an exageration.

LFS is an addition to your sim life. it is not the cause of your sim life.

i dont wrote about 6 years waiting for new patch. LFS develop cycle always feed lots of new stuff, and way to explore it was always fun.

My 5 years old computer with 60 fps in 15 players demo isnt good for S2 with 32 players, maybe in S3 will more players.
So actually i dont need S2 licence, becouse it is for me useless.

i need buy new hardware too for s2, but not only update, if i spend money for it i expect long lifetime use.

So directx 11 for s3 ? maybe directx 12 13... where is published info about develop cycle?

Only one simply information - s3 will about 1 year, or 5, 10 years is good enough for verdict if new computer buy this year or next.

I dont need better computer for other things, for email and internet is this low computer super, and other games makes me tired.

So S2 licence is for me 1000$, and who want explore old stuff, nobody,
i want S3

Thank you lots devs, really FUN

Quote from stiggycz :

i dont wrote about 6 years waiting for new patch. LFS develop cycle always feed lots of new stuff, and way to explore it was always fun.

My 5 years old computer with 60 fps in 15 players demo isnt good for S2 with 32 players, maybe in S3 will more players.
So actually i dont need S2 licence, becouse it is for me useless.

i need buy new hardware too for s2, but not only update, if i spend money for it i expect long lifetime use.

So directx 11 for s3 ? maybe directx 12 13... where is published info about develop cycle?

Only one simply information - s3 will about 1 year, or 5, 10 years is good enough for verdict if new computer buy this year or next.

I dont need better computer for other things, for email and internet is this low computer super, and other games makes me tired.

So S2 licence is for me 1000$, and who want explore old stuff, nobody,
i want S3

Thank you lots devs, really FUN

i think you need to do some research. LFS S2 is DX8 (i think). S3 will more or less stay on the same DX version. getting 5 years out of a computer is good. but your computer is now old. like a ps2
you're a demo user so all S2 content is new for you. old for me. you will still get 60fps on a 32 car race. your fps will drop at the start. maybe 40fps. but will go back up to 60fps once the cars spread out.

STiggycz, you get 60FPS near 15 cars in LFS with a 5 YEAR OLD COMPUTER?!
HOLY SH*T!

I get 12fps near pits and a 20 cars in pits with an 8 MONTH OLD COMPUTER.
DAMN.
I hardly hit 30fps lulz

And no, the FPS won't change much depending on cars; it's relatively the same.

And, I'm curious, can you PM me you PC specs?

-Pat™

Quote from stiggycz :

So directx 11 for s3 ? maybe directx 12 13... where is published info about develop cycle?

The rate of development of LFS is so slow it might actually start to go backwards. So perhaps DirectX 6 or 7.