Quote from newage :

i vote for take the rev limiter off and bring back engine damage...
maybe make redline smaller, like 1000 or 1500rpm...



cheers

um...1000-1500rpm redline. Are u serious?illepall

^^ lol, i think he means the red-line RANGE. i.e; 7000-8000rpm. Not 7000-12000rpm.

o rite lol...please forgive me

I dont flat shift, the sound of it gets annoying, and it just doesnt feel right. Wasnt the engine damage in S1 like 10x easier to get (which was better imo), 'cos i remember you would occasionlly flat shift and you would hear the engine damage and notice the power loss if you done it too much.

i think if you flatshift and a car like the LX6, FZ5, RAC. and you keep doing it for a good 5-6 laps you need to blow the head.... i really do not think a stock motor with the power to take the RPM's to redline cant take flat shifting for all that long, and at that i think if you know how a good speed shift or sliping the gears will be faster than a flat shift

after driving "fast" other day, i did some "test", is this:
i could only flat shift from 3 to 4 gear, from 1 to 2 i always hit the rev limiter for sometime, in other combinations, like 2 to 3, u have to lift the throttle, from 3 to 4, i didnt feel the engine hitting the revlimiter.

before someone ask, ti was a little Chevrolet Celta, with a 1.4 engine, rev limiter is about 7500rpm.


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It's acceptable in some of the cars, like the GTR cars, the Formula cars and maybe the FZ50 as well. But still, I flat-shift in all cars, because I don't have a clutch-pedal nor a shifter, so I really cannot be bothered with lifting off.
I say "maybe the FZ50" because in my mind it's a bit like a Ferrari 360 or a 430, and those two cars both have a sequential gearbox with paddle-shifting and an auto-clutch. There is no need to lift in those real cars, because the automatics clutches so fast that you'd have to lift completely for just a milisecond, then hammer the throttle again, which is impossible to coordinate.
In the other cars though, (XF, XR, LX etc.) it is more realistic to lift when shifting, but then again, if you don't have either clutch-pedal or shifter it's pointless.

well what are you guys talking about wen you say "flat shift" any way, becus it sounds like some times you say that even useing the lift on upshift with your foot floord is flat shifting or some thing. but what im thinking about wen i hear flat shift and stright up gas to the floor and shift hotshifting with no lift at all (i dont think shifting with your foot down is flat shifting as long as you have lift on upshift on) but in some of your posts im geting lost likw WTF do they think it's hotshifting even if you have lift on upshift on?

Pardon?

No, shifting with the throttle down and "throttle cut on upshift" enabled is not flatshifting, as LFS releases the throttle for you. Flatshifting is only when that option is disabled and you keep the foot down, resulting in the revs jumping up on shift.

Quote :

real racing sequential shifters often have auto-throttle-cuts.

Instead of cutting the throttle, modern ECU / fuel injection systems just cut off fuel to a few of the engine's cylinders. Traction control does the same thing (as opposed to stability control which uses individual wheel braking to reduce yaw, and maximize torque at each tire).

Quote :

a well-executed manual shift can be faster than flat shifting.

Possibly, but no way is a manual shift going to be faster than a computer controlled no lift sequential shifter. As previously posted with the video reference, shift times with a XTRAC like box are 50ms (1/20th of a second) in the lower gears down to 30ms (1/33rd of a second) in the higher gears (less rpm drop). No human can match this, and it's worth a second or so depending on the car and track.

Currently LFS doesn't model no lift sequential shifters, even in the F1 car.

Well, whatever the fine details are......the point is you can get away with some outrageous shifting behaviour in lfs without seemingly causing much damage, people going into a hairpin at 120 mph in 6th, shifting straight down to 2nd in 1/10th of a second while stomping on the brakes, revs going thru the limit, hit the apex and accelerate out, where is the finesse or for that matter, the reality? It would benefit the sim, imo, to have even just a small delay built in between downshifts so you can't just instantaneously flick down thru 4 gears without blowing engine, clutch, gearbox, it would just 'feel' a lot better and make for some greater level of skill in racing.
Introduce NKP's F1600 gear change where you cannot physically change up unless you lift off the accelerator, or risk missing a gear, and give the downshifts a 1/2 second pause or so. Something like that. In NKP it adds a lot to the racing experience.

not sure if anyone has said this but i think that they should go back to the S1 style shifting were you cant float the valves without compleatly destroying your engine. i really didnt mind the popcorn engine that everyone got when downshifting to early or reving it really high..it required a lot more "skill" i think

sorry if someone has already mentioned this

Also, in a real F1600 car you'd change gear without thinking about it. The systems work seamlessly together. But in a computer game using a stick or paddles with no feel, and no direct sense of acceleration, it's far too hard. I'd bet you £100 I could get in a F1600 car in real life and change gear easily without thinking about it. But in nKP there seems to be too much luck involved (and besides, I discovered that two quick jabs on the change up stick did a flat shift anyway as the first jab cuts the throttle, releasing the load on the dog clutches by the time you jab for a second time).

I agree nK is better in this regard, but it's far from perfect and taken it a touch too far. I'm sure Scawen plans to make the drivetrain/gear changing side of things much more complex at some point.