The S2 cars look good enough. Some of the S1/DEMO cars need a higher poly makeover, which I believe we will get in the next patch.

What LFS needs is tracks instead of cars. We've already got every type of car, what would another one handling just a tiny bit different do good?

Quote from der butz :

...you have to notice that "the Devs" would have to pay much much more for those models because they'll earn money selling a game that has those models in it.

Personally I'd like to keep my slow dual core 2333MHz Rig with the crummy 4850, two lousy gigs of RAM and the single silent fan a bit longer, so no million poly cars for me, thanks.

I always wonder why so many people (demo or not) cry for new content but don't do anything themselves. There has been a development pause of two years for us normal customers, why have only a few people started modding lfs, and none of them has done it properly?
Why not simply make a proper model and give it to the mighty ones, hoping that they'll simply put it in the game?

greetz

der butz

PS: I know that modding is an unwanted topic here and I do not want to encourage people to reverse engineer lfs, the stuff I wrote above is just a statement towards some whinging lazy people.

Hi there ! Everybody that buy those models has the right to use them in any way he wants as they make them to sell them to game designers....

As i said before althrough they have 500.000-1.000000 polygons each the could be saved in dds at 3 sizes.One size with full polygons and the other two with reduced numbers so people with older pc's can choose the lower quality models....

Quote from justasimfan :

P
And for people that are afraid about perfomance have in mind that GT5 "Premium cars" are made by around 300-350.000 polygons each and the game can run with a grid of 16 cars at 60 frames .

Most 3d models from above have around 500.000-1.000.000 polygons but the huge difference from the ps3 is that on the pc you can adjust the graphics.On a decent computer you can easily play with a 16 or 32 car grid with 60-100 frames.On older computers reducing the quality of the cars will keep the game smooth as silk..

(Have in mind that the ps3 has 7 working cores of 3.2ghz each with only 256 kb cache memory each core,a 7800 gtx card with 256mb graphics memory and 256 of main system memory- With around $1000 you can find on ebay i7 gaming computers with 6gb of memory and a decent 285gtx card.)

A i7 by the way has 4 main cores of 2.66-3.33 with 3mb of cache each core and every i7 has 8-12 additional sub cores.Add to that 6 gb of memory and that a 285 gtx card is 6 times faster than a 7800gtx that means even with full quality you can play with 1920x1200 with max aa and af with a 32 car grid at over 60-100 frames easily

A PC based-computer and a specially designed console supercomputer are two different things. You need to keep in mind that each game to the smallest detail on the PS3 has been specially designed to run on a PS3. Let us not even talk about the more efficient OS built by Sony to run on the CellBE + RSX hardware.

A PC on the other hand has hardware coming from all over the shelves on your local PC store. Add in the fact that the OS itself was built for a big variety of usages, the OS becomes bloated, and filled with background services and processes that are never used, but take a big chunk of your computer resources. If everyone was to have a specially built OS, possibly something like nLited XP, or 7(V)lite of 7 or Vista, they may be able to come closer to the prescribed "efficient" OS, but probably never to the point of a specially built OS like those on your consoles.

Take an XBox for example. I think this has been a notorious example to describe the relation between raw processing power output, and the actual picture on screen with many console fanboys vs. PC fanboy Youtube discussions. You will probably never be able to run something that looks half as good as FM1 or Halo on a Coppermine - based PC @ 700 MHz with something as comedic as a Geforce 3 on 64mb of RAM.

Add in the fact that not everyone even has PS3 - spec hardware (ie. RSX 7800GTX). I was still running a 7600GT up until last XMas. If you say a rig of eBay only costs $1000, then maybe you should get on your way to buy S2 to support the development And maybe buy me a whole new chipset + CPU; Anything with eight threads and the name i7 on it will just be fine, if you will

Not that I'm disapproving of upgraded graphics. Anything new will do LFS some good. However, I'd be looking more into the physics aspect of the game. I think that is the keypoint. All games out there can have good looking cars, but it is the physics of the game, and how everything feels (ie. gameplay) that seperates LFS from your typical arcade / semi-simulator (ie. Dirt2 with its DX11 capable shaders + tesselation).

EDIT: No, I do not have a Nintendo Wii, nor do I intend on buying one. PS3 -> GT5 /or 360 -> FM3 FTW xD

the beauty of Lfs is not the realisim or anything liek that its that it can run on most anything these days ( most poor pc's will run it. )

if you where to do this then...

it'll look way better on my pc... but a fair few users will have to upgrade.

Oh my God !! Victor posted in the other thread we also discussed about the models before closing it! Heheh

Not a comment through about the models.....At least he read about them and maybe checked them out ( i hope )

Quote from justasimfan :

Look we are waiting for ...the last 5 years for new content and probably almost 2.5 years for....one more car...the scirocco....Just the work needed on the existing cars to get them updated almost stops any chance to see more cars...Maybe we will see 2-3 more cars but that in the best case scenario.

I made many times the proposal of giving a chance to some very talented users here to help the devs by making some high quality car models for the existing cars and maybe a few cars the devs tell them to model.With that way and having a contest so only the best models get picked there would be no problem as far as quality and as far as physics they would not be touched.
The devs keep refusing this proposal.

The 3d marketplace has some incredible astonishing car models complete with some stunning interiors.Honestly i did not even know such quality car models for sale existed until today.Some of those models give the so called "premium " cars of Gt5 (they supposedly need 1 month to model each) a run for their money...

For less than $2000 all the current cars can be updated with some incredible models(with the badges removed ofcourse ) .And have an additional dozen of new cars that would never been possible to have.

Physics for the current cars will stay the same and for the new cars only the devs will work on them.

Come on now Scawen,Victor and Eric this is a great chance to bring lfs to the next level !

This will improve lfs by light years and will live you time to work on physics/tracks and maybe weather effects...

I am going to hunt you down and smack the shit out of you......

Every thread you create - you are constantly flaming the developers. If you think you are going to make a difference - you WONT. How about you stop now. Buy a license, Race in S2 for 6 months , and come back when you have some real suggestions from some more actual in game experience.


If you continue opening threads this were you are constantly flaming and begging for more content - you will be reported in an attempt to simply shut you up.


/thread now. This guy is getting annoying.

Quote from CodieMorgan :

I am going to hunt you down and smack the shit out of you......

Every thread you create - you are constantly flaming the developers. If you think you are going to make a difference - you WONT. How about you stop now. Buy a license, Race in S2 for 6 months , and come back when you have some real suggestions from some more actual in game experience.


If you continue opening threads this were you are constantly flaming and begging for more content - you will be reported in an attempt to simply shut you up.


/thread now. This guy is getting annoying.

What the #$%$^ $ IS YOUR PROBLEM ? :mad:

And YES I WANT to make a DIFFERENCE ! There are altenative ways to have the game developed faster and better.I am not talking about maybe and if and someday.I am talking about NOW and i give solid,sound and safe for the developers ways to do it.NOW

I am not daydreaming and bullshiting like you do who have idolized the game to a podium and attack anybody that has a different opinion.And it is people like you when they realize how behind lfs will be in the upcoming genre of simulations(Rfactor 2,Gtr 3...) that will forget lfs first.

And the devs dont need anybody to defend them.I have said times and time again how astonishing the fact that they have reached so far is for 3 people.From ancient times wise people say that critique is the biggest form of flattery.I it wasn't for my respect and love for their project i would not spend my time to show them better ways to continue their game.

Do i said i just want more content ? All my posts are with one goal have the pressure of car models relived from the devs with altenative ways as also the pressure of updating the existing tracks (by contests) so they can concentrate more on physics,better damage,weather effects and yes also the physics of some new cars and some tracks.

Quote from CodieMorgan :

How about you stop now. Buy a license, Race in S2 for 6 months , and come back when you have some real suggestions from some more actual in game experience.

... actually the demo cars have more polygons than the most S1/S2 cars....

Quote from justasimfan :

And YES I WANT to make a DIFFERENCE ! There are altenative ways to have the game developed faster and better.I am not talking about maybe and if and someday.I am talking about NOW and i give solid,sound and safe for the developers ways to do it.NOW

But THEY don't want to GO those ways. NOW

I personally cant whine over the amount of car models poly's. I think the textures are more urgent than the models ...

I'm pretty sure if they were interested in going that direction they would have already looked into that kind of model. I can understand from their perspective why they don't want to though - when you build something yourself you know exactly what it does and why. So when you're talking deformation, for example, you know that vertex x0125 (or whatever) is the front-right corner and can be moved 27 pixels before it starts overlapping and causing issues. Starting from scratch with someone else's model means you have to learn it all over again. And with 200k of them per car, you're looking at a lot of time dedicated to just that and a lot of places to go wrong.

They look stunning, there's no doubt about it. But I still don't see any major issues with the cars as they are now. They look like real cars, they're simple enough to texture. They might benefit from a little bit more polycount, but I don't think they need it.

You get to a point where adding detail stops being about how it looks and starts being about being because you can. Does it really matter, for example, if the rear vent of the Carrera sticks up off the body panel? In terms of a game, not really. So there's a couple of dozen polys and vertices you're rendering for no reason. How detailed do you make the window sills? Do you really need a curve of rubber on the sides of the glass? There's another few dozen unnecessary polys.

200k polys * 32 cars on the field = nearly 6.5 million polys on just vehicles. Not too bad for most graphics cards from the last few years. But cars that detailed look silly against low detailed tracks, so they'd need done again too. If you go for detail rather than "this looks good and does everything we need it to" then it's an endless struggle for little to no gain.

I was quite disappointed when I opened this thread though. I thought simfan had actually made highly detailed versions of the LFS cars himself.

Quote from hazaky :

I personally cant whine over the amount of car models poly's. I think the textures are more urgent than the models ...

You guys are starting to sound like fanboys. The OP isn't complaining or whining, regardless of whether his vision of LFS is fundamentally flawed. He's just enthusiastic about LFS, just like most. And has the balls to put up his early-stage ideas, which anyone with any team-based development experience knows is a great recipe for potentially good ideas getting totally trashed.

The comment about his using a demo forum account despite a thousand bucks rig is more of the same bullshit forum politics.


The main problems with the OP idea:
1) Scavier haven't yet shown hints that user content is due anytime soon.
2) LFS is a sim first of all, and all those polygons are very probably beyond the point of diminishing returns. Visually.
3) Functionally, LFS being a sim first of all means that the performance budget for those visuals beyond the point of DR would be better used for physics. Which if LFS is anything like a flight sim, are still a MAJOR coding/performance hurdle for LFS' target computers.
4) I only glanced at the website, but in principle I doubt they'd let LFS include those paying items without a more expensive business license. When Eric could just do more of what he's always done: make cars himself (c.f. the undeveloped/unreleased models LFSTweak hints at: kart, buggy, motorcycle, etc). What's more probably the bottleneck here is the physics that go with the car models.

Thanx Breizh for bringing some logic in this thread

Ehh... I think Eric would model the cars himself, rather than removing the badges and making up 'fictional' cars, even though they technically aren't. I don't see it as a good idea.

There is only one way to LFS, it is to sell it to some cool companies like for example as EA Games. I think that is the only way that game could be reborn, and there will be new tracks, cars and much more other stuff. :tit:

For now we only see how the project dies, because developers F**k the game.

Quote from ChiKisT :

There is only one way to LFS, it is to sell it to some cool companies like for example as EA Games. I think that is the only way that game could be reborn, and there will be new tracks, cars and much more other stuff. :tit:

For now we only see how the project dies, because developers F**k the game.

I'm sorry for this, but this is the dumbest idea I've seen around here. EA successfully managed to destroy many legendary games (NFS anyone?) plus it has very limited experience with hardcore sims developement. Why would a company like EA be interested in taking over LFS anyway?
LFS is best of under Scaviers management and honestly, I'd rather see it dead than ruined.

a decent idea..but copyright?

Quote from Breizh :

(c.f. the undeveloped/unreleased models LFSTweak hints at: kart, buggy, motorcycle, etc).

those cartypes have been around for a while...

edit:

Quote :

kart(s) = mrt
buggy = lx4, lx6
saloon/touring = std/tbo, maybe the rac and fz5 too, i forget
gt = the gtr's
formula = the single seaters

i forget what the other ones are, but yeah.

I mean those aren't in the public version of the game because they're not ready. The only other reason I can think of is that the game isn't ready for them, which would be a strange reason. The nearest good reason is in the case of motorcycles and how to control them with classic car controls, which enough other games have shown can be done effectively enough.
IIRC there were more than one type of kart (something like 125cc, 250cc), along with motorcycle cartype, so it's consistent with these being unfinished models.

Quote from Breizh :

IIRC there were more than one type of kart (something like 125cc, 250cc), along with motorcycle cartype, so it's consistent with these being unfinished models.

yes, but just because they are there doesn't mean they intended for those vehicles to be added to lfs at some point... they could have been used for internal testing.

Quote from justasimfan :

Please if Scawen ,Victor and Eric ,if you read this check the following site

http://www.turbosquid.com/Search/3D-Models/Vehicle/Car

You are a tad bit too enthusiastic about this, to be honest. It's like you're only on this site to post that link over and over again like FREE iPod spam or something. You have been doing this for a while now, and it's the only thing you seem to talk about.

To be honest, I like the user-made content Idea you had in that other thread, but when you started talking about REPLACING CAR MODELS THAT WERE ALREADY IN THE GAME, I was flabbergasted at how stupid of an idea that was.

To repeat what I had said in the other thread:

Quote from ATiRAGEPRO :

.... Have you ever tried decreasing the polygon of a Freeform Mesh Object? automatic polygon pruning in 3d programs either DON'T WORK, or they leave your object looking like a six-sided turd! Most of the wire frame ends up having to be pruned manually, and there is no bigger pain in the ass than buying an object from sites like renderosity.com, and having to erase most of it's mesh so that it can actually RUN in a game. It is a f***ing nightmare to have to do that. If the Devs actually DID waste their money on those models, there is no way in hell those cars are going to run well on any decent computer, let alone laptops that only run DirectX8.1.

Dude, if you are really so in love with those car models, you might want to start making your own racing sim.

... What? I'm serious!

@justasimfan: I'm adding my reply to your post from the "tire physics progress report" thread, here, as its not relevante to tire physcis or VWS.

Quote from justasimfan :

Have you played any other simulators lately? Forget the dreaded iracing.[...]
I am talking about gtr evo/race on ,the latest rfactor mods even FVA...

I have tried iR and FVA. I have tried rF and GT2 (but not GTR EVO/Race On). Neither of those offer what I get out of LFS I dont need all the gimmicks that you mentioned above to keep on loving LFS, nor would it deter me from racing in LFS. That is not saying I'm not looking forward for updates, I'm just saying all that is not required (for me) to get the best out of LFS.

"Light reflected from a warm tarmac" will look great. Would it add to the immersion in LFS: sure. How much would that increase the online racing experience? Not much; some people will probably have to turn those settings off to keep LFS running smoothly.

Dont foget that LFS is optimized to run on basic PCs, so that people who want to race online can do so without missing on stuff. Some details are acutally turned off to keep everything running smoothly. (ie. rim/hub details)

Quote :

No animation for 3d spectators /crew as also there is no grass or 3d trees Just play games like RBR and than you will understand how important the above things are.

Granted, I havent tried RBR - but I'm pretty satisfied with LFS. Great looking spectators waving and cheering - I can do without that when I'm racing.

I cant contribute much to the discussion about the cars in LFS. Have you seen all functions related to the LFS cars in LFSWorld. Related world records, online PBs, car-specific stats. I really dont see quote "supras,skylines,lexus,corvettes,nsx,truenos,ferrar is,classic cars etc..." /quote making its way into LFS.

Relatively I'm new here, I've still got loads more to discover/enjoy in LFS. I'm yet to race in leagues, get a WR , or race the single seaters. I have more than enough content to go through to keep me happy till Scavier does his magic.

__________________
As for this topic, I think the point has already been made by Tristan.
__________________

noobs stop entertaining the kid he doesnt realy read it lol

I think weather was said before, Honestly, If i was racing at about 6:00 PM at Kyoto national in field of GT1's GT2's and GT3's, And it was foggy, Then all of a sudden about the thirteenth lap it started raining. And we all had to equip rain tires, I wouldn't care of the car models where 1,000,000 or 5 polygons, And your idea has been defeated justasimfan; I think you need to let it rest, It's a 60/20/20% vote 20% wants the details you want, User made car mods.. etc.. 20% are split vote. And 60% will be patient and wait, I'm with the 60% There. Get S2, And go on Cargame.nl S2, I'm telling you, I just unlocked the FZ50 and I never once cared about the polygons, You are more worried about lag in my opinion..

But seriously, It's not going to happen mate.