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Koran Burning
(194 posts, started )
Quote from evilpimp :Theres no reason to close it, there have been no personal attacks. Only perfectly mature people giving their opinion and debating.

Now mike, there is a major flaw in that video. It is definetly an inconvenience to have muslims praying in the streets but they have to pray and if the mosque isnt big enough they line up in front of it. The whole argument that they are also likely in a political group is based on nothing at all and trust me, the majority of muslims I know are far from it. They practice their religion without getting in the way of anyone and if they ever do its not for political reasons. This prayer last a maximum of 10 minutes, its inconvenient but help them build a single mosque for these people to pray in and they wont bother you for that 10 minutes they pray on the streets once a week on friday.

The purpous of these muslims isnt to get in the way of people contrary to what you seem to beleive, its to pray. If given the chance to do so without bothering anyone, they will.

They should have the chance, but regarding the NY one, they should, but not near ground zero IMO, it's saying to the West 'We brought you down and we build on you, you are nothing'

By all means have it in Muslim neighborhoods, I have nothing against that, but, religions go both ways. Do Muslims let Christians pray in peace? Hindus? Jews?

Yet other religions pander to Islam
Quote from theirishnoob :the kettles calling the teapot black.


Dont feed the pastor troll.

Bringing the point forward is not feeding the fire. Its a serious debate.

I myself believe religion has a very serious place in the world. Religion is far more than a reason to answer who our creator is. I think we would all agree that natural selection and evolution (Darwin's theory) has got us to the place we live today.

What is interesting, for me atleast is where do human values come from? Evolution doesn't explain this. For the fittest species to survive would it survive by being what we call 'human' (tolerant,kind,helpful) I doubt that it would.

With regards to the religious centre being built near the WTC. I dont see the problem, obviously I can see why it could cause tension but it shouldn't be allowed to. As it has been said, just because they called themselves Muslim's doesn't mean they are. If you do not follow its teachings then how can you be? I'll tell you now that the perpetrators of the 911 attacks were not following Islam or any religion for that matter.
So... does anybody know where I can hire a firefighting helicopter on a Saturday night?
Quote from Scott Mckenzie :
What is interesting, for me atleast is where do human values come from? Evolution doesn't explain this. For the fittest species to survive would it survive by being what we call 'human' (tolerant,kind,helpful) I doubt that it would.

Being kind could have been a trait which avoided someone getting their head chopped off in the early stages of evolution. All these things and attributes can be easily explained by evolution.
#80 - pipa
Quote from Scott Mckenzie :What is interesting, for me atleast is where do human values come from? Evolution doesn't explain this. For the fittest species to survive would it survive by being what we call 'human' (tolerant,kind,helpful) I doubt that it would.

Obviously without religion we would all be living in caves and chop our heads off.
If we didn't had the bible our culture would ve taken a different ferry tale with about the same set of rules.
I think the notion that a magical, omnipotent being somehow appeared out of nowhere, created the earth, created man etc etc is utter madness.

Religion is a crutch, either that or people are brainwashed from a young age, and know no different.
Quote from Intrepid :Being kind could have been a trait which avoided someone getting their head chopped off in the early stages of evolution. All these things and attributes can be easily explained by evolution.

And what if the person accepted death as a matter of honour to their culture?
Quote from spacedskunk :And what if the person accepted death as a matter of honour to their culture?

Clearly a change in reasoning due to the culture seeing as we're all normally programmed by nature to run and preserve ourselves if all else is lost. But perhaps it's a loophole. What if the culture's stance on death rose up from the fact that the respective people looked highly upon those who gave their lives for the rest to survive.

Although you have given a very brief definition. There are quite a few scenarios in which one would be given the option of "accepting death" so what specific case are we talking about?
People are f**king stupid.

No offense to the many Americans here, but some of the shit from the US is absolutely stupid and disgraceful.
Quote from NSX_FReeDoM :People are f**king stupid.

No offense to the many Americans here, but some of the shit from the US is absolutely stupid and disgraceful.

Saying America in general is not right, look on all the stupid shit the other countries does aswell
Quote from BAMBO :Clearly a change in reasoning due to the culture seeing as we're all normally programmed by nature to run and preserve ourselves if all else is lost. But perhaps it's a loophole. What if the culture's stance on death rose up from the fact that the respective people looked highly upon those who gave their lives for the rest to survive.

Although you have given a very brief definition. There are quite a few scenarios in which one would be given the option of "accepting death" so what specific case are we talking about?

Indeed it is a broad scenario, and it's hard to give you a specific case because in one way or another I'll tailor it to suite what I said. However some religions (if not all, I'm not sure) teach of an afterlife, and for instance religious radicals may end their own life along with others to serve their beliefs, and I cannot see how this is related to evolution.
#87 - Uke
Christitution
Christianity and the U.S. Constitution don't mix.

NOT allowing the mosque to be made violates the 1st amendment and property rights.
2nd Amendment violates Christian commandment number 6 in Exodus 20:2-17 and Matthew 5:38-40.
Christian fundamentalists getting involved in politics violates Mark 12, I Timothy 2:1-3, Acts 5, ect...

I could go on, but this thread might get closed anyway.
The actions themselves have explanations in psychology if not in other sciences as well. The way we interact with our environment is strongly related to the way we perceive it which is in turn related to the way we have evolved.

As said above, we are programmed by nature to have a sense of self preservation and a desire to perpetuate. Pretty logical so far. Wouldn't have survived so far if we didn't had the will to live. Going back in time when predators where a constant danger to let's say a tribe, members of said tribe would be presented with deadly scenarios. When faced with such scenarios, they would automatically start to put in balance all the factors and then take a decision. Let's leave all the factors but two alone: the instinct to survive as an individual and as a group. They will move on to measure and balance these two instincts. Those that put individual survival above will flee and those that considered group survival to be of more significance will sacrifice themselves to allow the rest of the tribe to escape to safety. What's remarkable is that those that choose to sacrifice themselves will rarely be at peace with the decision. This is due to the fact that the instinct to survive as a group will be in direct conflict with the instinct to survive as an individual. So effectively if we choose to buy time for the rest of the group, we will be nevertheless reprimanded by our mind for going against our most basic rule.

A couple millenniums until the present day, not much has changed in the way we think. If those religious fanatics consider that by committing suicide, they greatly help the survival of their group, then they will do it. You could also say that there is a loophole when it comes to religious fanatics. If they have a strong believe in afterlife then they don't see suicide as ending their existence. They see it as a gate through which they just simply continue to exist in another form, in another realm so basically not going against the basic rule of survival. And even if it does,the inner conflict between instincts mentioned above applies to this situation as well.
#90 - aoun
I think people here need to be educated abit more about the middle east and aswell the Islamic faith. Im not Muslim, though i understand its morals and values. I come from the middle east and i must admit, flymike, you need to learn afew things about the Islamic faith before mumbling junk on here assuming you understand what an extremist is and their views.

if anyone doesnt understand certian things, give me a PM and maybe ill explain in more detail answers. Perhaps not the best thing to post things here because knowing the internet, things will get twisted.
Much truth
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Quote :Florida Rev. Terry Jones said he is cancelling the planned burning of the Quran and instead flying to New York on Saturday to meet with Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the planned New York mosque.

"We have agreed to cancel our event on Saturday and on Saturday I have agreed to meet with the Imam," Jones said Thursday.

He said he decided to cancel his protest because the leader of a planned Islamic Center near ground zero has agreed to move its controversial location. The agreement couldn't be immediately confirmed.

Hmmmmm.
BS

He's done it because he can't get what he wants
Quote from danowat :Much truth

- Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told.
>> Morality is ultimately meaningless without God, it is merely relative to the society you live in. If you do not like someone else's moral choices who are you to judge them, upon what vacuous moral high ground do you pretend to stand?

- Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right.
>> Secular humanism is doing what you or society arbitrarily think is right & not doing what is thought wrong, despite there ultimatey being no such thing as 'right' or 'wrong'. What 'is' simply 'is'.

Quote from Scott Mckenzie :Evolution doesn't explain this. For the fittest species to survive would it survive by being what we call 'human' (tolerant,kind,helpful) I doubt that it would.

yes it does and of course it would
much less intelligent animals live in groups/packs/herds etc which offers loads of advantages and does require all of the above supposedly human bahaviours to work for any length of time
once you get to the point where offsrping takes at least 14 years to mature to any leves at which it can support itself living as a herd and having the "humanity" necessary to do so becomes inevitable
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Hmmmmm.

That isn't exactly true. They just interview one of the people on the news here, he basically said Terry Jones and someone else is going up to New York together and that Imam in New York hasn't agreed to a thing they are saying he has.
Dogs are more humane then humans.
no dog ever fed me and took me to the doctor or let me live inside a warm house.

Koran Burning
(194 posts, started )
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