Nice to read that, sounds all fair. Seems like you´re giving it all the right thoughts. I already hope i can be in your next race again, and i´m sure my teammates will like that too.

Getting a timeout in a good positions is always a harsh thing as you loose tons of time on the dc, join up again and leave pits. But I'm sure admins will see what teams actually got a "timeout" for engine damage and which teams did not, I think it's pretty obvios when looking at the topspeeds and all that. (and which teams deserve a penalty lap and which do not).

If you investigate every time out, you´d need a lot of time after some races. It might then be an idea to wait for an actual protest by a team who feels cheated.

i´m sorry, i was just using this thread to test the subscription- and email notification function. made me feel like i had to say something about everything

Quote from schw4rz :

As posted before, our main Admin Carsten is currently checking the Replay, for Disconnects. As far as i know, we will not remove all penalties, but only these which occured in sector 3, because we do not want to "double"-punsih. The not completed Lap is penalty enough. The additional Lap added by our Tracker, will in contrast be removed.

I just want to point out that giving one lap back for only those teams which timed out in last sector put them actually in better position than the ones who timed out in first or second.

3rd sector is something like about 50s long. So when +1 lap penalty is removed from them they lose about 2mins to 2mins 50s. But then these teams timing out in first or second sector not only get +1 lap penalty which is already 2min 50s, and just to add to that then all the time lost when they were racing before the actual timeout which can be from 1s to 2mins. And then of course the time to connect the server again and leaving the pits, and how the strategy went all wrong.

Quote from eimer_ :

Having said that, i still want to thank everyone who was involved in this, no matter if you made this possible or if you "just" drove. I enjoyed every second once again. I´m just loving these events!

Oh, and my opinion on disconnect-penalties:

- first of all, I wouldn´t change rules half way or even after the race. if you think this penalty is too harsh, don´t give it in the next race. but this time, everyone knew what to expect. It was in the rules.

- second, the penalty came up for a reason. think of a team who´s got a damaged engine or a car on the roof. they might want to shift-p or shift-s to get a new car, even at the expense of a penalty lap. now if there was an alternative way of leaving the track without a penalty, they would use that alternative. the alternative would simply be: unplug the network cable on your machine. time-out. quickly plug it back in and rejoin.

so if you don´t want people to do that, you´d have to lift the 1 lap penalty for shift-p as well. and i don´t think you want to do that ...


edit: of course noone can force team alternate to take the price. if they want to give it to the second place, what a nice gesture

It was always in the rules that disconnect penalties would be reviewed. Just too many people in these leagues have reading deficiencies. (Including our gt2 squad )

Quote :

For disconnect, or Shift+P there will be a lap removed from your result. (If you have real troubles with the connection we could change your penalty, that your race isn't over after that.)

Quote from Sracer :

I just want to point out that giving one lap back for only those teams which timed out in last sector put them actually in better position than the ones who timed out in first or second.

3rd sector is something like about 50s long. So when +1 lap penalty is removed from them they lose about 2mins to 2mins 50s. But then these teams timing out in first or second sector not only get +1 lap penalty which is already 2min 50s, and just to add to that then all the time lost when they were racing before the actual timeout which can be from 1s to 2mins. And then of course the time to connect the server again and leaving the pits, and how the strategy went all wrong.

I get the point, you are right in what u say. In fact, when i think about it it makes absolutely no sense to give penalties at all if u just look at random not intentionall done penalties... I just caluclated expected ratios for the two situations, using the assumption, that disconnects are random within the whole Lap-time. So evenly distributed around the wohle interval. Supposing an average Lap of 170 seconds, the probability of a disconnect before sector 3 is 120/170 an after is 50/170. so its 2.4 times more likely to get a punishment before sector 3, whereas the punishment before sector 3 is on expectance 60 seconds, and after about 145 seconds, so the punishment before is 2.42 times less hard. if u combine both the ratio is about 0.99, so nearly even. If u add a one Lap penalty its 1.70 so its 1.7 times as hard getting punished for a disconnect before as for one after (thats simpl because the penalt does not take in account where the disconnect was). if u substract the penalty for a disconnect after, the ratio is 3.7 (!!!), so a penalty before is punished 3.7 times harder. (If u add some 5-10 seconds for reconnecting, results dont change that much)

so if u compare these ratios its absolutely senseless to substract that lap for one team if u just divide the situations by sectors. The mistak is probably done becaus we didnt look at the probabilities for disconeccts in the two parts. But there might be more useful methods for handling that, but that would be hard to implemnet, because u cant just give back the time the lost because it depends on traffic, skill, car, sector and so on...

IMO, timeouts are so ****ing shitty that if I was hosting/admining any race I would make sure the only penalty/time lost for a team that experiences a real timeout is the time it takes them to reconnect, take a new car and get back on track.

In fact, I'd even use position nodes on a track to get them back all the time of the lap they were driving before timing out. If the driver can provide a screenshot of his last position on track before his screen went to the "connect menu", I'd even give them that distance as "finished" (this can easily be done since the first thing you notice is all the cars dissapearing and/or stopping their movement on the minimap, so there's plenty of time to take a screenshot if your timeout is lasting for a few seconds or even more).

Stream-Download:
Part1: http://91.121.163.6/StreamIV/StreamIV_20100911_002.wmv
Part2: http://91.121.163.6/StreamIV/StreamIV_20100912_002.wmv

Quote from GuRu_PL :

Lol, sorry for mistake, quality of the cams weren`t 1080p, but face of one guy in lan-house and your face that i remember from your youtube video from 24h of moe in my opinion were very similar :P



Hehe, i like to watch this kind of videos :P

I was watching the live cams (and some other: Troy`s and Tomhah`s :razz almost all free time between my stints, great idea with these live cams

i can announce a bigger inferno meeting for the 16 hours.
Bigger like: more beer

Congratz to all drivers I didn't run but i saw replay and you were all fantastic nice work.

I've upload replay to MU for everyone if I've the permission I'll announce the link.

Quote from scipy :

IMO, timeouts are so ****ing shitty that if I was hosting/admining any race I would make sure the only penalty/time lost for a team that experiences a real timeout is the time it takes them to reconnect, take a new car and get back on track.

In fact, I'd even use position nodes on a track to get them back all the time of the lap they were driving before timing out. If the driver can provide a screenshot of his last position on track before his screen went to the "connect menu", I'd even give them that distance as "finished" (this can easily be done since the first thing you notice is all the cars dissapearing and/or stopping their movement on the minimap, so there's plenty of time to take a screenshot if your timeout is lasting for a few seconds or even more).

IMHO that's just too complicated. It takes away a factor of sport. Sometimes you just have bad luck I guess.

Quote from Panos-Gr :

Congratz to all drivers I didn't run but i saw replay and you were all fantastic nice work.

I've upload replay to MU for everyone if I've the permission I'll announce the link.

Sure dude, put the link here

Quote from N I K I :

IMHO that's just too complicated. It takes away a factor of sport. Sometimes you just have bad luck I guess.

you're a ****ing idiot, just shut the **** up. i wish you would jump off a cliff, and then for superman to swoop in and rescue you and then throw you from an even higher altitude.

Here we go again... illepall

btw the legendary "die in a fire" declared old fashion?

Quote from ZanZi :

btw the legendary "die in a fire" declared old fashion?

Definitely. It is now so much in the common vocabulary of most LFSers... Scipy needed to find new expressions to distinguish himself

Can't be dusting off the classic for just any idiot.

IMPORTANT!!!!

When you want your 1 lap panalty to be deleted, just write a protest to [email protected], with the detailed time/lap. so we check this.

Send the protest till Friday 24th September. If there are no protest the result in the tracker will stay like it is.

Here the official Results:
http://www.team-alternate.de/? ... &id=6366&typ=news

Quote from [FAR]D1ggA :

IMPORTANT!!!!

When you want your 1 lap panalty to be deleted, just write a protest to [email protected], with the detailed time/lap. so we check this.

Send the protest till Friday 24th September. If there are no protest the result in the tracker will stay like it is.

Quote from CarstenH :

Here the official Results:
http://www.team-alternate.de/? ... &id=6366&typ=news

So to make this clear to everybody to see how good Germans are here it comes,

On the day of the race my internet was droping alot, i had alot of contact with my provider ( upc ) and the told me that the were doing maintaince to the network. Still after some testing it didnt drop for over 1 hour and we took the gamble to put me in the car, but after 7 laps it went wrong and i timed out 4 seconds over start finish.

At the point of the time out, we were doing equal pace to the leaders and didnt have any engine damage at all ( check the replays if you dont trust me.. ) so basicly we didnt have any reason to ' fake ' a time out.

Now, after giving them a email about how it went and what the reason was and even explaning it / showing it with screenshots the dont give us the 'penalty' lap back becaus it looks like its a faked one.

At the point of beeing in the race, we were all agreeing within the team that we would get the lap back, and pushed our asses of the close the gap ( 1 min 30 at the biggest point ) and finaly 20 minuts before the end taking the 'virtual' lead and finishing there.

But because we dont get the lap back, we get 3rd now.

Well germans, be proud of yourself winning a race that u dont deserve to win, isnt it a bit strange that u make ur own team win by not giving us the lap back while its clearly to see that it wasnt a FAKE time out and it just COST us time.

It's always the same with u german ass ****s.

+1 rudy
funny. now they will start acting like they don't speak English and everything will get even more confused. but wheyyy they got their enermax and thats da priority.

well thats just the pitfall when you have sponsors included, got to keep them happy eh

If you are able to read, do it.

Every Disc. or shift-P will result a one lap panalty. It's clear in the rules! If you drop out in 3rd Split we will give back that lap, cause you would have 2 laps panalty then...

none of our sponsors tols us to win that event or something... and our team of course don't get that prices... pff