Probably already reported, but causing race length problems in OWRL. Patch T/U ruined strategy in the hour long OWRL races with the Fox, we used to have a choice between 1 or 2 stops - races had strategy, now hour long races involve no stop at all because of the really low fuel consumption and tyre wear.

R1's can last around 2 hours driving on most tracks - it used to be that tyre choice was important, and fuel now lasts around 1 hr 20 minutes or so - longer than the races being done in the Fox so there is no need to stop for fuel.

So in OWRL they are adding some race length to introduce a pit stop for the next race, but just a little and now everyone will stop once - rather than having a strategy choice.

The patch has totaly destroyed strategy in the OWRL races, which is probably the biggest user of the Fox in long races.

So can we please have fuel use and tyre wear patched back to how it was before the physics update?

The rest of the physics have improved the game immeasureably, but the loss of strategy in the major LFS FOX based league is a loss too great to bear!

Could this have something to do with wing angles. After the patch the wings have been taken down very much in all fast sets because you can drive with smaller angles. And that would mean less resistance (or what is it called) and that would mean less fuel consumed. And the fuel consumption is about the track allso, in my calculations thinking the next OLFSL race in the FOX at Aston historic I can do 23 lap with full tank, thats about 1 hour.
Maybe making the fuel tank smaller would solution if you want more stops, or increasing the consumption, but no its not a bug! Wrong section, improvment suggestions would work better....If this wasnt some sort of silly joke :P

I thought about it and decided to make it a bug, because it used to be great and now it's ... well, sort of innert and gray...

I can destroy R1's in about 6-8 laps on most tracks... Maybe I drive odd.

You can overheat them if the pressure is wrong, but if you've worn them out you need to stop wheelspinning... . Wear is the thickness of the three temperature areas, it can go quite thin ...

Probably more heat I guess, but I still end up understeering into solid objects so the result is similar..

I quite like the FOX's tyre/fuel as is, but I can definately see why it can be 'disrupting' to strategy in a league scenario. Or even a public one for that matter

Well IRL a car like the Formula XR would never do races with pitstops, only short ones. So maybe you should either keep the races short, or switch to a manly car like the Formula V8.

It's all a matter of fun and gameplay though isn't it. Sure we could say the Fox should only be driven in races up to 30 odd minutes or so screaming "keep it realistic, yeah!", but the Fox is one of the most popular cars in LFS for a reason, and hour long races with 1-2 stops and varying tyre choices used to be fun - now it is a 1 hour sprint race and they are not as fun because there is no strategy - everyone you see on track is where they are, a sprint does not need to be an hour.

Now they make them longer than an hour to put stops back in, but everyone is on the same strategy unless we make the races over 2 hours and it's still R1 tyres as a no brainer. So still everyone on track is where they are, no strategy, no variation - the stops just meen less on track action and a few hotlaps in the middle.

To get a good fun GP style race in the Fox you now need to play a different computer game or something. This wasn't so in patch S.

Sure 100+ people could move over to FV8's, but they race the Fox because they enjoyed it. Or we could say lets not do GP style races in the Fox anymore, lets shorten races to 30 minutes and be all realistic about how a car like the Fox is usually used in the real world. Then I lose my favorite F1 style league racing anyway...

Quote from Becky Rose :

Probably already reported, but causing race length problems in OWRL. Patch T/U ruined strategy in the hour long OWRL races with the Fox, we used to have a choice between 1 or 2 stops - races had strategy, now hour long races involve no stop at all because of the really low fuel consumption and tyre wear.

R1's can last around 2 hours driving on most tracks - it used to be that tyre choice was important, and fuel now lasts around 1 hr 20 minutes or so - longer than the races being done in the Fox so there is no need to stop for fuel.

So in OWRL they are adding some race length to introduce a pit stop for the next race, but just a little and now everyone will stop once - rather than having a strategy choice.

The patch has totaly destroyed strategy in the OWRL races, which is probably the biggest user of the Fox in long races.

So can we please have fuel use and tyre wear patched back to how it was before the physics update?

The rest of the physics have improved the game immeasureably, but the loss of strategy in the major LFS FOX based league is a loss too great to bear!

What's wrong with everyone in the race starting with a set amt of less fuel?

You could test how long you'll get on 1/2 a tank etc, work the strategy round that. Seems easier than asking to force all lfs users to go back to older 'patch' fuel & tyres etc just cause you have to figure new strategies? rather selfish really

ShannonN

Because it only adds strategy if there is a choice. Pit stops add nothing alone, they actually remove on track action and replace it with a few hotlaps in the middle. What adds strategy and GP style fun to the racing is having a choice over what tyres and fuel load to run.

ie: In the Fox you could put on R2's, but because R1's last for around 2 hours of driving - in a 4 hour race R1's would still be faster. Where is the choice?

We really need changing track conditions. That would make races more tactical. Now the track and air is about 23 degrees of celcius (I know because I tested it) which is really cold actually, if the track temperature would be something like 40 degrees the R1s would melt like butter. Then, harder compunds would be usefull. And when you add water, the tactics will be even more interesting!

Isn't the fuel consumption just lowered because of the BF1?

The BF1 uses so much fuel you can only drive 40 mins with it or so.

A solution could be a smaller tank for the FOX...

The time between pitstops is so big that, even if a pitstop is necessary, there is no possibility to vary the strategy (there aren't many ways to plan a strategy when you consume 110% fuel and don't have to change tyres in the race).

This problem isn't restricted to the FOX. It affects about all cars (UF1 to XFR, though I have no experience with the big GTRs regarding long races).

Vain

I would guess it is the same in the big GTR's as well. You had the strategy of the faster FZR that's harder on tires as well as a fuel hog, or the slower but easier on tires and fuel others. The FZR's fuel consumption was cut in half or something which takes the pitting down to just being forced to by rules. The hour races I did in patch Q was forced 1 pit. But the FZR HAD to pit for fuel, the others COULD go the distance. That meant big on car selection/fuel strategy because you would have to take more time to fuel up in the FZR than the other 2. I only assume the GTR's would be as described above because I haven't yet done hour races in patch U (but I'm about too).

the fuel consumption and tyres are about right for that class of car, if it was a real car i dont think the drivers would be pitting except for damage.
but i think Becky is right in trying to get strategy back in the fox.
maybe a little patch for a smaller fuel tank would help.

Far more realistic IMO, firstly a pitstop in a Formula Renault is a stupid suggestion, IRL it would take at least 5 minutes to refuel one as the fuel filler is hidden beneath the bodywork and even then is hard to access and would have to be refueled using a jerry can. As for tire wear it sounds about right so long as they aren't overheated, single seater tires tend to be talked about in heat cycles and normally a set would be put through 3 or 4 30 minute cycles at this level of competition, they can do a season fine on tight budgets.

I have a one word answer to that: gameplay.

Have you ever seen when Scawen gets ahold of certain facts about a car, that he bends those facts for the sake of gameplay? Unrealistic things in LFS are more and more reduced, patch by patch - for example too sophisticated setup options on certain cars, which will probably be even further reduced in the future. I believe the change to the FOX was unfortunately one of such reductions, and I very much doubt you'll get your "less realistic but more fun" model back that easily, if at all.

Quote from ajp71 :

Far more realistic IMO, firstly a pitstop in a Formula Renault is a stupid suggestion, IRL it would take at least 5 minutes to refuel one as the fuel filler is hidden beneath the bodywork and even then is hard to access and would have to be refueled using a jerry can. As for tire wear it sounds about right so long as they aren't overheated, single seater tires tend to be talked about in heat cycles and normally a set would be put through 3 or 4 30 minute cycles at this level of competition, they can do a season fine on tight budgets.

Yes a pitstop in a Formula Renault is a stupid suggestion, but we are talking about the Fox not formula renault. ok its the same class, but for long league races you need strategy.

+1 for a smaller tank on the FOX. Or else +1 for preset fuel limits as a serverside race management option. I love this car and think it is the best one in the sim for overall raceability. I'd like the humble FOX to change very little from its current incarnation, this little bread and butter car has a broad appeal for new and veteran LFS'ers alike.

Pit strategy is a great element in racing and limiting the fuel capacity in the FOX is a sensible proposal. I enjoy long races in the FOX but will enjoy them more if strategic elements are present.
I think the tyre wear is ok though. You can nurse them for fifty laps or you can destroy them during qualifying. To add a strategic element to tyre useage I would opt for limited sets of tyres for qual/race sessions, again as a serverside option.