Quote from PMD9409 :

I'm not trying to change the restrictions ken, read son.

People were wanting to know if a better balance could be found, so I made a suggestion, that was it really.

BS! You should of heard phil in ts, demanding the restrictions to be changed. He is so overpowering.

Quote from Seb66 :

BS! You should of heard phil in ts, demanding the restrictions to be changed. He is so overpowering.

Imma get wilko to put some wedge into you son.

Quote from PMD9409 :

But if i look at last years championship, it comes down to the final round where 7k in a fxr could have won the championship so maybe they shouldn't be changed at all is what you are saying! . If you are just tellin me to look at last years times then you definitely won't be getting 22% as the fxr had much more potential to be fast. I used those times from last year, and that's how my restrictions were created. If you think that 22% is even, then I want whatever it is you are drinking!

Bring some proper data please, because your 'data' is just your opinion with no support.

I'm talking averages Phil..... not one car that was way better than the general load of drivers! Now who doesn't get it... geez! You'll do what you will anyway. you're obviously right, as always so no point discussing it...

I'm not even sure what you are after here, do you want to make the FXR so quick that all the good drivers take it, or are you just moaning for the sake of moaning?

For EVERYONE's knowledge:

Here is the point of what I wish to achieve with restrictions for this series:

To balance the cars so they are generally even over the course of the season, when pushed to near or at the limits.

We don't need, and can't really base it off of the slowest, this would create issues at the top. You must balance based on the top. Data from all types of drivers WILL be taken into consideration, but ONLY IF YOU PROVIDE IT WITH SOLID SUPPORTING FACTS.

What I need to make a decision:

- Lap Times over a stint (1h): what the times are at the start, middle, and end, and general progression
- How far the car can go on a tank of fuel, before they tyres let go (car longevity)
- The strong points of a car (eg speed in corners, straight-line speed, etc)
- The strong points of the car with the restrictions (eg slow corner exits, wears tyres very quickly)

Give me quantifiable information, not just "I think this is what will happen" Run a stint or two, summarize the occurences. The server will stay on KY3B until the end of the day UTC Thursday, then I'll switch it to SO4R. So I need some data on KY3, before we go to the tighter confines of SO4R.

If really needed, I'll organize a test day later this month.

Now, let's put away any grudges, or opinions of the person supplying the information, and let's have a civilized discussion. If the discussion continues to be of an uncivilized state, I WILL NOT change the restrictions, and may exclude any person involved from NDR events for unsporting behaviour.

The FXR could have gone just as fast as the XRR and FZR last season if Tommy, Seb, or Myself had chosen to drive it...

Just dump the FXR so all of us bad drivers don't bother.

:P

Quote :

Lovin' my revisit of the LFS forums.

While I don't think that the anecdotal evidence should be completely discounted, I do feel that statistically relevant data would be helpful. Up until now, I have the impression that we've just been comparing hotlaps. It's definitely true that the only readily accessible information on the NDR-GTAL server is best laps, and this stat isn't necessarily the best indicator of performance in this league.
I suggest that we come up with a standardized test, reducing the variables. Set a standard weight (not percentage) of fuel, a standard length of time to drive, on a number of tracks. This method may be a brute force way of coming to a conclusion, but I would feel better about the restrictions if there was a lot of data to support them.

Perhaps someone has done some extensive testing. Care to share your results?

Deko beat me to it

Based on what you've said Deko, what needs to happen is that one or two people that are generally regarded as the faster drivers, drive all 3 cars at a few different tracks and go by that. People like myself and a lot of the middle of the pack racers aren't much use to setting the restrictions.

As long as they're not FZR aficionados, then you should get an idea of what the quick guys can do though as it's amateur league, it needs amateurs that would drive in it to do the testing, in my view.

Quote from StableX :

I'm talking averages Phil..... not one car that was way better than the general load of drivers! Now who doesn't get it... geez! You'll do what you will anyway. you're obviously right, as always so no point discussing it...

Quote from StableX :

Based on what you've said Deko, what needs to happen is that one or two people that are generally regarded as the faster drivers, drive all 3 cars at a few different tracks and go by that. People like myself and a lot of the middle of the pack racers aren't much use to setting the restrictions.

As long as they're not FZR aficionados, then you should get an idea of what the quick guys can do though as it's amateur league, it needs amateurs that would drive in it to do the testing, in my view.

So... You completely contradict yourself and go with my idea from the beginning. I'm truely amazed.

Nothing to do with that Philip. Quite simply, I read Deko's post:

Quote from dekojester :

Now, let's put away any grudges, or opinions of the person supplying the information, and let's have a civilized discussion.

and accepted that instead of carrying on as you seem to want to do....

It would actually make more sense to have fastest drivers balance the cars, so that all 3 cars can actually be pushed to there limit... I'm not one of them.

Quote from StableX :

Based on what you've said Deko, what needs to happen is that one or two people that are generally regarded as the faster drivers, drive all 3 cars at a few different tracks and go by that. People like myself and a lot of the middle of the pack racers aren't much use to setting the restrictions.

Haven't you noticed that's what we've been doing :s? Just need to do it on an hour stint now instead of hotlapping

If Im allowed to drive GTAL next season, I will gather a team and drive FXR.








for real

samesame

Quote from Seb66 :

samesame

Lets team up?

I thing the Restrictions of last year were perfect. Overall the FZR was stronger, except South City.
But the FXR was still competitive. Especially because its more difficult to reach the finish in a 12h race in FZR than in FXR.

Maybe that comment is not very helpful but in my opinion the restrictions should stay as they were. U cant find fairer restrictions....

Quote from Tomhah :

Lets team up?

Will if I'm allowed to race I'm GTAL

Seb you are definitely out as an MoE winner and runner up, Tommy is likely to be also out taking last seasons performances into consideration.

-Seems that new restriction times are grouped more closely together
-FXR isnt being dusted in long straights (Ky3 oval sector)
-will make drivers use all 3 cars more, not a FZR dominated field
-setups shouldnt change from last year (maybe final like .01)
-closer competition and more action with FXR against other cars and XRR to FZR
-my reasons

Quote from Bmxtwins :

-FXR isnt being dusted in long straights (Ky3 oval sector)

So it will sucks in SO and all slower track...last season was funny because all 3 cars were faster than other on some track and slower in another one. So it has created such an interesting championship !

Quote from MoMo92i :

We have already tested them in LFS Endurance Series...it seems that it was unfair with FZR

http://lfsoliv76.free.fr/ligue ... 9-2010/lfses_r7_gt350.jpg

What a manipulating statement, looking at the car choice & results of this league...

.....

I have heard it a couple of times now: No FXR blew away a FZR/XRR at SO4 past GTAL season, just compare fastest race laptimes - 0,3 seconds only. On the other hand I see up to 2 seconds difference against the FXR on several other tracks, looking the spdo stats of past season. This to me makes the new restriction testing subject a very valid one.
I´ve tried to help with testing the past two days.
What I saw was, that the FXR is still about 2 secs a lap slower at KY3b and on a FXR track like BL1 the cars are about even.
FXR will still not become THE winner car, in case similar other good racers go the XRR/FZR way. And at the end of the day everyone will be able to chose their easiest engine damage-, their easiest flip-, their worse tires- and backmarker-qualifing car, whenever not able to use r2r2, like the "Big Brothers" will do, for sure. Just take the FXR then.
But this will not happen.
Sidenote: I see FXR GT2 teams testing on r4r2 for the 16 Hours Race, should tell enough about the horrible FXR tire situation, even in GT2 class.

To round it up: Even with new restrictions, the FXR will still be the "Diesel Car" steady pace and no mistakes and you have a little chance for the overall win, were FZR/XRR because of a faster pace still can have risk-racers like Danish D.Lind behind the wheel..

Quote from Dennis93 :

..there is no talented drivers choosing the FXR anyways..

Have a nice weekend,all.

Quote from Dennis93 :

2 there is no talented drivers choosing the FXR anyways..

Actually, imo they should see it as a challenge and choose the underdog car, and try to win a championship with it. Which as far as I know, have never happened in a GT league in LFS. To me that would be WAY more impressive than the usual stuff with the FZR at the top. But I guess they don't have enough balls to try and take on the mighty FZR. Kudos to those that have though.

in discussing you all should not forget that the FXR can drive much longer mostly so that it is not a disadvantage for it being a bit slower...

Quote from arco :

Actually, imo they should see it as a challenge and choose the underdog car, and try to win a championship with it. Which as far as I know, have never happened in a GT league in LFS. To me that would be WAY more impressive than the usual stuff with the FZR at the top. But I guess they don't have enough balls to try and take on the mighty FZR. Kudos to those that have though.

I can promise you that if I am allowed to drive GTAL again, I'll drive the FXR!