Over the weekend, there has been quite a saga brewing over Tony Fernandez and his Lotus F1 company's purchase of the rights to the famous "Team Lotus" name and their intention to run in F1 in 2011 as "Team Lotus".

Lotus to adopt Team Lotus name: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/86640

Proton - Team Lotus name not allowed: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87038

Lotus insists it can use Team Lotus name: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87042

For those who are not aware, Team Lotus was the classic F1 team of Colin Chapman heritage. Once upon a time, there was a car company called Lotus Engineering, which built road cars. An engineer named Colin Chapman split off a dedicated racing team called Team Lotus for motorsports purposes, including F1. As time went by, Lotus Engineering became the Lotus Group of Companies, and eventually, Group Lotus. A Malaysian car manufacturer called Proton purchased Group Lotus in the 90s. However, during those decades, Team Lotus existed as a separate entity until it eventually stopped operating after 1994, and the name was sold off to David Hunt (brother of retired F1 ace, James Hunt).

Tony Fernandez, a Malaysian businessman, purchased a license to use the Lotus brand from Group Lotus for his F1 team, "Lotus Racing". The license was agreed for one year, and will expire at the end of the current F1 season. For next year and beyond, Fernandez purchased the "Team Lotus" name from David Hunt and intends to call Lotus Racing, "Team Lotus".

Proton, the owner of Group Lotus, is not impressed. They're alleging that David Hunt never had the rights to the "Team Lotus" name, and that Fernandez's purchase of the rights from Hunt is meaningless. Proton alleges that only their subsidiary, Group Lotus, has the full rights to "Team Lotus", and even further, that the name "Lotus" cannot be used in connection with F1 without their permission.

What's everyone's take on this? IMHO, I think Proton is just being ridiculous when they suggest David Hunt's rights were invalid. Team Lotus was owned by Colin Chapman and his wife, Hazel. They sold Team Lotus to Peter Collins and Peter Wright, who then sold it to David Hunt. You can't get clearer than that. Furthermore, Hazel Chapman owns Classic Team Lotus along with her son, Clive, so the "Team Lotus" moniker is in no way exclusively reserved for the Lotus Group.

Fernandez has launched legal action in the English High Court, so hopefully this can be sorted out soon, and we might end up with the "real" Lotus in F1.

This is really silly of Proton IMO. The Team Lotus name doesn't belong to them. And after all wouldn't Fernandez's team make some good promotion to Lotus Cars, for free? Why would they complain about that?

Why won't they sue them instead:

I don't care what they're called, they'll never be the real Lotus to me. I didn't get caught up in the whole "Lotus are coming back to F1" hype because it's nonsense really. "Team Lotus", "Lotus Racing", "Lotus F1", "Lotus Position"...doesn't make a bit of difference when you're bringing up the back end of the grid (just like Lotus before they pulled out of F1 in the '90s...).

End of the day, the name LOTUS is in there. I find it hilarious with whats going on, its really stupid and is killing the LOTUS name. Team Lotus, Lotus Racing, Lotus Group. Same shit, different smell.

What Proton is doing is contradicting everything, the team couldn't go for the Team Lotus name due to the rights being owned by someone else meaning it is not associated with Lotus group, now that they have acquired the rights to the name the Group that allowed them to Race in F1 is now saying that its not allowed, as they own the rights to Team lotus as its part of Lotus which they hold all rights too.

If they had rights to Team lotus why couldn't they be called Team lotus at the start of the season!!

Proton has no case and will lose which will be funny as you will have a Proper Lotus team racing under the name Lotus without the support of the brand itself.

Quote from amp88 :

I don't care what they're called, they'll never be the real Lotus to me. I didn't get caught up in the whole "Lotus are coming back to F1" hype because it's nonsense really. "Team Lotus", "Lotus Racing", "Lotus F1", "Lotus Position"...doesn't make a bit of difference when you're bringing up the back end of the grid (just like Lotus before they pulled out of F1 in the '90s...).

To be fair they just walked into F1 a season after a big reg change with there own completely new chassis(which was stupid as they should of been logical and bought the EX toyota chassis) its going to take time to catch up or at least another Reg shakeup for them to be competitive, but i think once this is done they will be at a Williams, force india level.

Quote from Mustafur :

To be fair they just walked into F1 a season

Exactly, so why should they get the Lotus name? They don't have the pedigree in design or personnel that the real Lotus had. The parallel I drew with their performance was that I found it funny that when Lotus pulled out of F1 they were struggling quite badly and the current performance of the 'Lotus' team is looking about the same. Of course they can't be expected to be up there in the first year, I just like the parallel.

Quote from amp88 :

Exactly, so why should they get the Lotus name? They don't have the pedigree in design or personnel that the real Lotus had. The parallel I drew with their performance was that I found it funny that when Lotus pulled out of F1 they were struggling quite badly and the current performance of the 'Lotus' team is looking about the same. Of course they can't be expected to be up there in the first year, I just like the parallel.

The Real Team Lotus Flopped in the 90s so i don't see your point.

Quote from Mustafur :

The Real Team Lotus Flopped in the 90s so i don't see your point.

My point is: they don't deserve the "Team Lotus" or "Lotus" or "Lotus Racing" or anything to do with Lotus name because they have nothing to do with the real Lotus. That's because I have a cynical outlook on the world though.

Group Lotus already lost a case against David Hunt in 1998, so quite honestly they are either thick or have short memories.

Actually, the Lotus 109 used in Belgium and Monza 1994 wasn't all that bad*, and would have easily placed them in the upper-midfield at the time. Sadly, the money had already run out, and the promise of the new car was never realised. Team Lotus died, and will never be resurrected, even if the name continues (returns) to F1 under Malaysian ownership.

*I remember watching Herbert qualify 4th at Monza, but was taken out at the first corner (of the old chicane) by Irvine. So we should blame Irvine for the demise of Lotus

Quote from tristancliffe :

*I remember watching Herbert qualify 4th at Monza, but was taken out at the first corner (of the old chicane) by Irvine. So we should blame Irvine for the demise of Lotus

The only reason that happened was because they had a special engine from Mugen (at least, I think they only had one of them) that they used in qualifying and started in the race. I'm pretty sure there was speculation at the time about whether or not it would last the race distance.

I couldn't care less how they are called, tbh.

After reading this thread and those articles i have just realised how stupid the word "Lotus" looks.

Quote from CSF :

Group Lotus already lost a case against David Hunt in 1998, so quite honestly they are either thick or have short memories.

Or most probably the senior management at Proton now have been completely changed...

And of cos those senior management people never give a sh*t about what happened in the past, all they care is how to milk as much money for themselves as possible. So..........

PS. And to be honest I can never linked this "Lotus" team to the "Lotus" most of us love, this is just some Malaysian racing team. And Proton should thank Tony for letting the world know it's some stupid Malaysian company that owns Lotus (and is doing nothing with it, until recently).

Quote from CSF :

http://sniffpetrol.com/2010/09 ... d-lotus-fight-over-lotus/

Quote from CSF :

http://sniffpetrol.com/2010/09 ... d-lotus-fight-over-lotus/

I fell off my chair lol.

Quote from Mustafur :

What Proton is doing is contradicting everything, the team couldn't go for the Team Lotus name due to the rights being owned by someone else meaning it is not associated with Lotus group, now that they have acquired the rights to the name the Group that allowed them to Race in F1 is now saying that its not allowed, as they own the rights to Team lotus as its part of Lotus which they hold all rights too.

If they had rights to Team lotus why couldn't they be called Team lotus at the start of the season!!

Proton has no case and will lose which will be funny as you will have a Proper Lotus team racing under the name Lotus without the support of the brand itself.

nah from their perspective they ain't really contradicting themselves.

I think what it all really meant is:
Group Lotus doesn't have the rights to Team Lotus. But it doesn't stop them from sueing others for "passing off" to be Lotus when they attempt to use Team Lotus.

Whether that will work will be upto the court to decide.

Quote from JCTK :

nah from their perspective they ain't really contradicting themselves.

I think what it all really meant is:
Group Lotus doesn't have the rights to Team Lotus. But it doesn't stop them from sueing others for "passing off" to be Lotus when they attempt to use Team Lotus.

Whether that will work will be upto the court to decide.

But if you don't have the rights, then you don't have the rights

and if you do have the rights, then you do have the rights!

what would be funny (and highly unlikely) is if in 2011 tony fernandez's team win the drivers and constructors championship. can you imagine how stupid proton would then look saying that they were going to court to stop themselves being associated with the world champions?

Quote from Mustafur :

But if you don't have the rights, then you don't have the rights

and if you do have the rights, then you do have the rights!

Unfortunately most of the time laws ain't as simple as that.

Otherwise we wouldn't need lawyers~

But yes, Proton (Group Lotus) doesn't have the right to "Team Lotus". But that fact wouldn't stop Proton from trying to stop others from using anything to do with "Lotus" in their branding/name.

Its Proton that have the right to the Lotus name , after all they did make a Satria with a Lotus badge on it and surely that has to be enough justification to let them be the sole Lotusee

I can see Colin Chapman's head spinning in his grave as we speak..

Quote from richo :

Its Proton that have the right to the Lotus name , after all they did make a Satria with a Lotus badge on it and surely that has to be enough justification to let them be the sole Lotusee

It does have something to do with Proton's right to the "Lotus" brand.

In 1994, David Hunt bought rights to "Team Lotus", which is what Tony Fernandez's company has now bought. But Group Lotus has rights to "Lotus". The question is whether, in the context of Formula One racing, the trademark for "Team Lotus" is stronger than the trademark for "Lotus".

Quote from samjh :

It does have something to do with Proton's right to the "Lotus" brand.

In 1994, David Hunt bought rights to "Team Lotus", which is what Tony Fernandez's company has now bought. But Group Lotus has rights to "Lotus". The question is whether, in the context of Formula One racing, the trademark for "Team Lotus" is stronger than the trademark for "Lotus".

Fact is if they don't have the rights to Team Lotus then that Lotus is completely different from anything Group Lotus is.

In other words, if i make a company called Team mumbo, if Group Mumbo tell me i can't do this they have no say as Group and team Mumbo are two completely different companys.

Team Lotus will therefore have nothing to do with Group Lotus or the Lotus cars brand and be a completely different identity.