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Best F1 Rookie 2010
(89 posts, started )

Poll : Best Rookie of 2010

Kobayashi
122
Petrov
32
Hulkenburg
16
Chandhok
10
Senna
6
Di Grassi
3
Quote from JPeace :I wanna see him in a mega car, it would be senna reborn

hmm...Senna-san would be a good nickname for Koba when "Kamikaze" wears out...

Speaking of Senna, it's a pity that Bruno is being sort of held back by the car he's driving atm, and he's now under pressure from Kolles to be faster, much faster than Yamamoto if he wants to keep driving that (beautifully painted) dog of a car..one thing I'm glad though is that he is still keeping his confidence high when others are losing theirs (Glock, Schuey, Force India), and again keeping his head high while employed to a team so poor that they have to buy those little KangarooTV's to keep track of the sessions (they can't even afford timing screens!!!).
I think he's doing rather well for a driver with only 5 years in single seaters who's been getting (some) media attention and pressure because of his legendary surname, and most of all is driving the slowest, most uncomfortable car on the grid.

Still voted for Kobayashi though, because those last races...I wonder what Alonso and Button thought when they had to deal with Koba in their mirrors.
it has to be kobayashi,

he's getting consitant top 10 finishes in the past few rounds. He looks like a force to be reconed with in the future. I hope he has a good 2nd half of the season.
Pedro Lamy for sure .














Kobayashi with out a doubt , this guy should be at Renault next year for sure .
Kobayashi FTW !
Looks like Kobayashi won the first contract for next season.
Would have been nice to see Koba in a Renault though, still the Sauber is getting better all the time even if is the ugliest F1 car ever made.
I guess most people were right.
Quote from richo :Would have been nice to see Koba in a Renault though, still the Sauber is getting better all the time even if is the ugliest F1 car ever made.

I think the Sauber is the best looking of 2010 tbh.
Quote from amp88 :Hulkenberg followed by Chandhok. Even if you classify Kobayashi as a Rookie (which I reckon is silly) I'm not that impressed by him.

If Kobayashi won't be a clon of divebombing and burning Sato in faster car then it's definitely him.
Quote from amp88 :Hulkenberg followed by Chandhok. Even if you classify Kobayashi as a Rookie (which I reckon is silly) I'm not that impressed by him.

Quote from Mustafur :


I stand by what I said about Kobayashi. Sure, he's exciting to watch, but we've yet to see him competing against a good team mate. His driving at Suzuka was wreckless on a number of occasions (the first move on Alguersuari was ridiculous, in particular) and it's indicative of someone who is immature in the car. In years to come he could mature to become a great driver (and possible world champion) or he could end up like another Hamilton.
Quote from amp88 :I stand by what I said about Kobayashi. Sure, he's exciting to watch, but we've yet to see him competing against a good team mate. His driving at Suzuka was wreckless on a number of occasions (the first move on Alguersuari was ridiculous, in particular) and it's indicative of someone who is immature in the car. In years to come he could mature to become a great driver (and possible world champion) or he could end up like another Hamilton.

"Reckless"

What's wrong with Hamilton? Lots of drivers should aspire to be as good as he is.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :"Reckless"

We had that on IRC the other night, so I blame that on my subconscious. You don't think some of his moves were dangerous the other day?

Quote from DeadWolfBones :What's wrong with Hamilton? Lots of drivers should aspire to be as good as he is.

He's still making too many mistakes and not learning from them.
lol @ Irvine's comments in that video.

edit: or maybe it was the other guy.

Anyway, the moves could be construed as dangerous, particularly the first one, but overall it reminded me a lot of Sam Bird @ Barcelona—probably the most exciting single performance by a driver all year in F1/GP2. I think in all but one of those passes he was in control of what he was doing, and frankly doing a lot more to improve his position than I've seen any other driver this season do. Most of them seem far too content to just ride around and wait for pit strategy to decide it for them.
Quote from DeadWolfBones :Anyway, the moves could be construed as dangerous, particularly the first one, but overall it reminded me a lot of Sam Bird @ Barcelona—probably the most exciting single performance by a driver all year in F1/GP2. I think in all but one of those passes he was in control of what he was doing, and frankly doing a lot more to improve his position than I've seen any other driver this season do. Most of them seem far too content to just ride around and wait for pit strategy to decide it for them.

There's no doubt his driving was exciting. Also, I agree it's refreshing to see someone who's not content to sit and wait. However, the problem is that all the moves relied on the person he was passing to acknowledge what was going on and actively avoid contact. Divebombing someone and hoping they move out of the way is an effective way of overtaking, but when someone decides not to put up with it you can easily have a fairly serious incident (e.g. Coulthard vs Wurz as Melbourne a few years ago). With divebombs into tight corners it doesn't take much for a driver to be seriously injured or even killed. He may have been in control of what he was doing in the majority of the moves, but he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing in any of them.
Quote from amp88 :There's no doubt his driving was exciting. Also, I agree it's refreshing to see someone who's not content to sit and wait. However, the problem is that all the moves relied on the person he was passing to acknowledge what was going on and actively avoid contact. Divebombing someone and hoping they move out of the way is an effective way of overtaking, but when someone decides not to put up with it you can easily have a fairly serious incident (e.g. Coulthard vs Wurz as Melbourne a few years ago). With divebombs into tight corners it doesn't take much for a driver to be seriously injured or even killed. He may have been in control of what he was doing in the majority of the moves, but he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing in any of them.

Eh, in all of them he was fully alongside before reaching the turn-in point, due to the nature of the hairpin corner. (And I'd wager that the opponents' teams were on the radio to warn them after the first one of those moves he pulled. )

I don't think the risk of a serious incident is very great in a ~60mph hairpin, but who knows...
Quote from amp88 :I stand by what I said about Kobayashi. Sure, he's exciting to watch, but we've yet to see him competing against a good team mate. His driving at Suzuka was wreckless on a number of occasions (the first move on Alguersuari was ridiculous, in particular) and it's indicative of someone who is immature in the car. In years to come he could mature to become a great driver (and possible world champion) or he could end up like another Hamilton.

I think hes biggest problem is Qualifying, but the suaber seems to struggle in Qualifying trim so we will wait and see.

Hes what you would call a true racer, Excellent race pace and probably has the best overtaking ability in the entire field.

The only thing that was reckless in Suzuka was hes first overtake on alguersuari but Imo was the most impressive, as it was timed pretty well, hes overtakes on Barichello and Sutil though where master class timed to perfection.
Quote from amp88 :There's no doubt his driving was exciting. Also, I agree it's refreshing to see someone who's not content to sit and wait. However, the problem is that all the moves relied on the person he was passing to acknowledge what was going on and actively avoid contact. Divebombing someone and hoping they move out of the way is an effective way of overtaking, but when someone decides not to put up with it you can easily have a fairly serious incident (e.g. Coulthard vs Wurz as Melbourne a few years ago). With divebombs into tight corners it doesn't take much for a driver to be seriously injured or even killed. He may have been in control of what he was doing in the majority of the moves, but he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing in any of them.

Senna did that same thing and thats what made him such a good driver, he would put you in a position where you would either crash into him or let him pass. 9/10 times the driver would let him pass.
Quote from Mustafur :Hes what you would call a true racer, Excellent race pace

It's impossible to say whether he has good race pace or not because he's not had a good benchmark team mate for comparison. It'll be interesting to see how he compares to Perez next year.

Quote from Mustafur :probably has the best overtaking ability in the entire field.

Judging on the evidence I have to disagree.

Quote from Mustafur :The only thing that was reckless in Suzuka was hes first overtake on alguersuari but Imo was the most impressive, as it was timed pretty well, hes overtakes on Barichello and Sutil though where master class timed to perfection.

Hold on. You say the move where he ran into Alguersuari was the most impressive because it was timed well? That makes absolutely no sense. Also, the only thing the other moves were a master class in was divebombing where you're putting a lot of faith in the other guy recognising what you're doing and getting out of the way. True skill when it comes to overtaking is when you manage to out race the other driver, forcing them into making a mistake rather than just leaving your braking a few metres late and hoping they don't turn in across you. Any driver in the field could do that.

Quote from Mustafur :Senna did that same thing and thats what made him such a good driver, he would put you in a position where you would either crash into him or let him pass. 9/10 times the driver would let him pass.

Again, I have to disagree. Senna's aggressive overtaking and defending were certainly assets but how many times did he divebomb people when he was driving for Toleman?
Quote from amp88 :It's impossible to say whether he has good race pace or not because he's not had a good benchmark team mate for comparison. It'll be interesting to see how he compares to Perez next year.

Heidfeld has out scored Kubica Twice as team mates does that count for a little bit?


Quote from amp88 :Judging on the evidence I have to disagree.

Other then Hamilton i don't see anyone else who comes close.


Quote from amp88 :Hold on. You say the move where he ran into Alguersuari was the most impressive because it was timed well? That makes absolutely no sense. Also, the only thing the other moves were a master class in was divebombing where you're putting a lot of faith in the other guy recognising what you're doing and getting out of the way. True skill when it comes to overtaking is when you manage to out race the other driver, forcing them into making a mistake rather than just leaving your braking a few metres late and hoping they don't turn in across you. Any driver in the field could do that.

It was timed well but Alguersuari went for the line he could of avoided it, and it could of easily been a spin out but shows excellent car control by Kamui, Kobayashi doesn't even need to wait to plant hes moves hes ability to divebomb from such a distance is incredible, and hes divebomb brake scare on Heidfeld was insane pressure which led to hes mistake.



Quote from amp88 :Again, I have to disagree. Senna's aggressive overtaking and defending were certainly assets but how many times did he divebomb people when he was driving for Toleman?

Its only an asset when talking about senna? and dive bombing is only allowed when your competing for a title?
Quote from amp88 :I stand by what I said about Kobayashi. Sure, he's exciting to watch, but we've yet to see him competing against a good team mate. His driving at Suzuka was wreckless on a number of occasions (the first move on Alguersuari was ridiculous, in particular) and it's indicative of someone who is immature in the car. In years to come he could mature to become a great driver (and possible world champion) or he could end up like another Hamilton.

Alguersuari was much worse then Kobayashi though, after hes 2nd overtake on him he really just tried to hit him and really should of been Penalised for it.
Quote from Mustafur :Heidfeld has out scored Kubica Twice as team mates does that count for a little bit?

Find 10 people who honestly think Heidfeld is anywhere near as talented as Kubica. Points tally isn't the only part of the talent equation.

Quote from Mustafur :Other then Hamilton i don't see anyone else who comes close.

Aside from Hamilton Alonso is good, Webber's shown a few decent moves (excepting Valencia ) and so did Button last year.

Quote from Mustafur :It was timed well but Alguersuari went for the line he could of avoided it, and it could of easily been a spin out but shows excellent car control by Kamui, Kobayashi doesn't even need to wait to plant hes moves hes ability to divebomb from such a distance is incredible, and hes divebomb brake scare on Heidfeld was insane pressure which led to hes mistake.

I disagree it was timed well. Kobayashi was out of control for most of it (and he acknowledged himself it was dangerous). Any driver could do divebombs like he does if they chose to. That's why I don't think it's impressive. What's impressive is overtaking people in such a way that you're in control.

Quote from Mustafur :Its only an asset when talking about senna? and dive bombing is only allowed when your competing for a title?

My point was that Senna didn't do it in his first year in F1. Also, Senna was able to pull moves where he wasn't just divebombing. Where are the other overtaking moves in Kobayashi's repertoire?

Quote from Mustafur :Alguersuari was much worse then Kobayashi though, after hes 2nd overtake on him he really just tried to hit him and really should of been Penalised for it.

Do you think if Kobayashi hadn't run into Alguersuari the first time Alguersuari would still have his Kobayashi as he was passing? I don't think so, and that's one of the side effects from reckless driving. Divebombing and running into people prejudices all further contact you have with them. If Kobayashi gets a reputation as an unsafe driver (which he's well on his way to getting, IMO) he's going to get less respect from the other drivers because of it and it's going to make things more difficult for him in the long run. It's much better to engage in strategic, clean overtaking manoeuvres because not only are they much more satisfying to the overtaking driver, but they gain more respect from the person you're overtaking and they're likely to give you more respect in return. If everyone in the field were to drive like Kobayashi is right now there would certainly be more overtaking but the general quality of racing would also diminish. Is this F1 or BTCC?
Quote from amp88 :My point was that Senna didn't do it in his first year in F1. Also, Senna was able to pull moves where he wasn't just divebombing. Where are the other overtaking moves in Kobayashi's repertoire?

What else can he show in hes first year?
The engines are too equal in performance to do easy Slip stream overtakes and such, and its only hes first season.


Quote from amp88 :Do you think if Kobayashi hadn't run into Alguersuari the first time Alguersuari would still have his Kobayashi as he was passing? I don't think so, and that's one of the side effects from reckless driving. Divebombing and running into people prejudices all further contact you have with them. If Kobayashi gets a reputation as an unsafe driver (which he's well on his way to getting, IMO) he's going to get less respect from the other drivers because of it and it's going to make things more difficult for him in the long run. It's much better to engage in strategic, clean overtaking manoeuvres because not only are they much more satisfying to the overtaking driver, but they gain more respect from the person you're overtaking and they're likely to give you more respect in return. If everyone in the field were to drive like Kobayashi is right now there would certainly be more overtaking but the general quality of racing would also diminish. Is this F1 or BTCC?

He hits a driver once and hes reckless?

The amount of pressure a driver like Kobayashi can put on a driver knowing how he drives is also an easy way to force the driver into a mistake which results in a overtake.

Best F1 Rookie 2010
(89 posts, started )
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