Ill do some in the winter in the snow, on a big ****ing parkinglot.
Well i did do donuts with my dads.......... uh Jeep once.

Quote from Klutch :

Burnout

[ snip childish bullshit ]

You da man! No really...... you da man! :bowdown: :bowdown:

qq

Quote from Klutch :

Track days would put alot more load and wear on the brakes, engine, and suspension than a 20 second burnout.

Yeah and it also puts more 'load' on the fuel tank, so what?

I said each to their own. If it makes you happy, then go for it. I just can't understand it myself. Maybe the idea of a track day seems nonsensical to you. But if you want to:

The difference is, a sports car was conceived in the idea that it will be doing track type driving. They're usually useless as a passenger vehicle compared to some average car. Especially the RX-7, as its best power comes from high in the rev range. Something not suited as well to street driving.

To have one, and to not use it as it was designed is pointless in my opinion. It's like getting sniper rifle with accurate scope, and only using it loosely aimed in the air as a starter pistol or something. Yes it can do that TOO, but it's missing the point.

The only thing being consumed is consumables. Namely, brakes, fuel and tyres. All of which are being treated better than with doing a burn out in fact.
The brakes are never used for more than a few seconds before they have the chance to cool again, so they're not going to glaze or boil the brake fluid.
The engine isn't bouncing off a limiter or heat soaking through lack of cooling.
The tyres too aren't being overheated and scrubbed, so aren't wearing at a pointlessly high rate.
The suspension is actually getting less wear that it would being driven on the roads too where I come from, but that's a different story...

It's also a lot more fun (to me) and a lot more challenging (to everyone). There's also a longer duration of that fun for the same wear.
If it even IS the same wear, as my brakes, nor engine, nor tyres are never working over their designed working temperatures.
It won't be a linear thing either, it will be exponential where something operating in it's working range, lasts far longer than something operating outside of it.

I do one track day a year, so I guess it depends how often people do this kind of thing.

And finally, and most importantly I think, the kind of person lacking this much mechanical sympathy doubtlessly drives harder on the roads than I probably do on the track.

Quote from EeekiE :

Yeah and it also puts more 'load' on the fuel tank, so what?

What does that have to do with anything?

Quote from EeekiE :

I said each to their own. If it makes you happy, then go for it. I just can't understand it myself. Maybe the idea of a track day seems nonsensical to you. But if you want to:

Of course not, i love all forms of motorsport, and the soarer DOES see the track occasionaly

Quote from EeekiE :

The difference is, a sports car was conceived in the idea that it will be doing track type driving. They're usually useless as a passenger vehicle compared to some average car. Especially the RX-7, as its best power comes from high in the rev range. Something not suited as well to street driving.

The soarer is a Grand Tourer. A 2-door sports and luxury hybrid.
And i know about rx7's, i used to own one and am a rotary enthusiasts. And just finished rebuilding one with a mate last weekend.

Quote from EeekiE :

To have one, and to not use it as it was designed is pointless in my opinion. It's like getting sniper rifle with accurate scope, and only using it loosely aimed in the air as a starter pistol or something. Yes it can do that TOO, but it's missing the point.

As i said above, its not like the ONLY thing the soarer does is burnouts.
If it was a burnout car, there would be no point in upgrading Engine, brakes, suspension, and everything else. Its more than capable of smoking tyres stock.

Quote from EeekiE :

The only thing being consumed is consumables. Namely, brakes, fuel and tyres. All of which are being treated better than with doing a burn out in fact.

You've obviously never been on a tight course then, hard braking constantly is going to cause brake fade and eventualy, depending on the quality of the disc's, it may warp them over time.
Suspension bushes under constant hard cornering will eventually chew them out. Shocks will eventually give up, and in extreme cases (usually with older cars) the severe chassis flex causes the seams to split. Which is what happend on a mates Ke70 track car

Quote from EeekiE :

The brakes are never used for more than a few seconds before they have the chance to cool again, so they're not going to glaze or boil the brake fluid.

Getting on the brakes hard before every corner is going to wear the brakes and discs ALOT more than getting on the brake for a quick burnout. When doing a burnout you dont have to apply barely any brake, and if you are, you're doing it wrong. It doesn't take much to hold the car still once it begins to spin.

Quote from EeekiE :

The engine isn't bouncing off a limiter or heat soaking through lack of cooling.

You realise you're suppose to redline rotary engines often to clear any carbon build up off the rotors, right?

Quote from EeekiE :

The tyres too aren't being overheated and scrubbed, so aren't wearing at a pointlessly high rate.

Again, a good track will certainly demolish street tyres.

Quote from EeekiE :

The suspension is actually getting less wear that it would being driven on the roads too where I come from, but that's a different story...

I highly doubt that.

Quote from EeekiE :

And finally, and most importantly I think, the kind of person lacking this much mechanical sympathy doubtlessly drives harder on the roads than I probably do on the track.

Lacking mechanical sympathy? What the ****?
The soarer is serviced regularly and gets more maintance than most cars on the road, if theres a problem with it, its fixed instantly. And its constantly being upgraded with new and better parts.

I'm not even going to touch that last bit.

Quote from Klutch :

What does that have to do with anything?

What? Because the whole point was that it's not THAT things get worn, it's HOW they get worn, and the value in it.

Doing a burn out in the context you did it is a complete waste of tyre and other things, unless you brought any joy to any 12 year old dying of cancer near by. It's not difficult and I'd argue it's not even impressive, unless monster trucks are the like are your thing.

Quote from Klutch :

The soarer is a Grand Tourer. A 2-door sports and luxury hybrid.
And i know about rx7's, i used to own one and am a rotary enthusiasts. And just finished rebuilding one with a mate last weekend.

I wasn't inferring that you didn't know anything about them, again, the point was, doing track days isn't a pointless thing to do with a sports car (or any car for that matter, but particularly one designed for it) when compared to purposely and needlessly wearing components. The components worn on a track day are fulfilling their sole purpose. A gun would get wear on it if used properly, or if you used it to twat a nail through a piece of wood.

Quote from Klutch :

As i said above, its not like the ONLY thing the soarer does is burnouts.
If it was a burnout car, there would be no point in upgrading Engine, brakes, suspension, and everything else. Its more than capable of smoking tyres stock.

As is nearly any car.

Quote from Klutch :

You've obviously never been on a tight course then, hard braking constantly is going to cause brake fade and eventualy, depending on the quality of the disc's, it may warp them over time.
Suspension bushes under constant hard cornering will eventually chew them out. Shocks will eventually give up, and in extreme cases (usually with older cars) the severe chassis flex causes the seams to split. Which is what happend on a mates Ke70 track car

Again you've missed the point. It's HOW you're wearing the components that I think is dumb, NOT the wearing of them.
Secondly the RX-7 has been around probably the tightest track in the world, which is a 0.3mile sprint track we rented for the day and used for laps, rather than single runs.

Quote from Klutch :

Getting on the brakes hard before every corner is going to wear the brakes and discs ALOT more than getting on the brake for a quick burnout. When doing a burnout you dont have to apply barely any brake, and if you are, you're doing it wrong. It doesn't take much to hold the car still once it begins to spin.

Again you've missed the point. It's HOW you're wearing the components that I think is dumb, NOT the wearing of them. I also think you're more likely to warp the discs by doing a burnout, and then stopping the car without getting any air through them to cool them off.
What a sports car is doing on track, is exactly what has been done in test rigs prior to release.

Quote from Klutch :

You realise you're suppose to redline rotary engines often to clear any carbon build up off the rotors, right?

What's this got to do with the context in which I mentioned it? Your car has a piston engine, when mine is being used on track, it has enormous airflow, no leaning out from a fuel cut rev limit (unless yours is ignition controlled), and is only briefly at full RPM before dropping down in to the next gear.

Quote from Klutch :

Again, a good track will certainly demolish street tyres.

No such problems after 10am till 1pm then 2pm till 5pm day, at Bedford Autodrome with Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tyres.
3.6 mile lap, fast corners and slower ones. 1km back straight in to a 100mph chicane in to another good 500m straight in to a hairpin.
What constitutes a good track?

Quote from Klutch :

I highly doubt that.

Nuneaton, Midlands, UK. Let's see if anyone reading lives here or has been here. Both the Curborough sprint tarmac, and ESPECIALLY the Bedford Autodrome tarmac were far slicker. Our roads are pot-holed, rippled, and speed bumped. I can't do 30mph down a main road the leads on to my housing estate without all my interior creaking and turning my spine in to dust. I have to do 20mph to the annoyance of anyone behind.
There were no such problems on track. Just a smooth loading and weight shifting when changing direction. Even the curbs were more gentle.

Quote from Klutch :

Lacking mechanical sympathy? What the ****?
The soarer is serviced regularly and gets more maintance than most cars on the road, if theres a problem with it, its fixed instantly. And its constantly being upgraded with new and better parts.

I was referring to how you drive it, not how much money you put in to it. As I've said from the start, and will repeat, it makes no sense to me how anyone would do this to a car they're fond of and want to look after.
And I can't understand how it's fun, but this isn't your problem or mine, everyone is different.

And you can't just assume victory with kitteh pictures...

Compared to most peoples' reaction to your burn out gif, I thought my initial thoughts were pretty fair on you, even if my point was the same as theirs.

It's a dumb use of resources, no matter how much or little it consumes compared to something actually worthwhile.

But whatever man, it's you're car. You're paying for it, you own it, and you enjoy it so get on with it.

I'd think banking would help suspension alot, But do not flame me, I'm clueless about racing, I just drive fast.. >.>

Anyway.. Go get em klutch.

get over it already lol

I don't race, it's just amateur track day stuff (although when you get past someone, you CAN'T HELP but feel awesome, even though they aren't racing, and really neither are you!).

I've not been to a track with banking yet. Curborough is about the size of my back garden and has none, and Bedford is an old airfield and so is slab flat, apart from one OFF camber corner.

Tiny Curborough Sprint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLrUgvy8ERw

Quote from Klutch :

get over it already lol

Didn't intend to have a go. Just wanted to throw in my 2p without just going:

'ur lame'

But anyway, seems as you've had experience with RX-7, can you recommend a good middle silencer. I need to be under 101dB at 4500rpm at 0.5m, 45deg from exhaust outlet. I was over it last time with:

Feed downpipe (to which the OEM one would normally have cat in, to my understanding) -> Knightsports cat (where centre silencer usually is, cat put here to stop it melting) -> and a Racing Beat twin outlet back box.

I'm thinking of swapping the cat out for something purposely designed to quieten exhaust, and then slipping the cat back on after the track day. I have until the 25th to find a solution.

Haha, i'm not the right person to come to for advice like that...
i had a 3" straight through system with a magnaflow cannon lol

I'm guessing this is to pass some sort of licensing/registration test thing?
Easiest way would be just swap in a stock catback every time the test comes up.

A free flowing exhaust while being quiet is something that is practically impossible on a rotary, and if you do manage to do it, i can guarentee any pre-mufflers will cactus in 6 months.

You could try using a butterfly valve in the exhaust, they tend to work pretty well on quitening down ported rotors when on the street, just makes them a bit of a pig (even more so than they already are)


my best mate owns a FC, this is how his pre-muffler ended up after a spirited run through the hills one night

Quote from Klutch :

small price to be free i guess.

cars are very expencive....

the day they dont cause you an arm/leg/first born is a good day.

seriously... if you can rag it without doing 1000's worth of damage....

Win.

This will be amusing to some.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/worst_20_cars?imageNo=18

Quote from Klutch :

This will be amusing to some.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/worst_20_cars?imageNo=18

ouch

"TVR Cerbera
Ah, TVR. No list of motoring misery would be complete without one of Blackpool’s fatal attractions cropping up somewhere. The Cerbera looked like a dangerously ill-conceived dildo, and while it briefly laid claim to being the fastest production car in the world, it seldom worked for long enough for anyone to find out. Which made up for the absence of any recognisable safety features."


made me lol.

Quote from Klutch :

Again, a good track will certainly demolish street tyres.

sif, i did a whole drift day last weekend on 2nd hand tyres and im still driving on them now :P will use them again next track day

doing stuff on the track is so much more fun then it is on the streets, you can push so much harder and learn so much more about driving, sif care about it causing extra wear to your car

Quote from Ian.H :

You da man! No really...... you da man! :bowdown: :bowdown:

Im glad you feel so strongely about it mate

Quote from EeekiE :

Didn't intend to have a go. Just wanted to throw in my 2p without just going:

'ur lame'

But anyway, seems as you've had experience with RX-7, can you recommend a good middle silencer. I need to be under 101dB at 4500rpm at 0.5m, 45deg from exhaust outlet. I was over it last time with:

Feed downpipe (to which the OEM one would normally have cat in, to my understanding) -> Knightsports cat (where centre silencer usually is, cat put here to stop it melting) -> and a Racing Beat twin outlet back box.

I'm thinking of swapping the cat out for something purposely designed to quieten exhaust, and then slipping the cat back on after the track day. I have until the 25th to find a solution.

90 degree turndowns on the end. Saved our racecar once from being black flagged for noise

Wow, you guys have noise restrictions on race tracks? wtf?

That sounds like a plan.

Quote from Klutch :

Wow, you guys have noise restrictions on race tracks? wtf?

Yeah I know. Zandvoort is particularly bitchy about it. They have only so much 'noise days' a year and they are reserved for the bigger events. The rest is a cumulative 95dB limit IIRC.

...wow, thats heaps lame

Quote from Osco :

Yeah I know. Zandvoort is particularly bitchy about it. They have only so much 'noise days' a year and they are reserved for the bigger events. The rest is a cumulative 95dB limit IIRC.

95dB is madness for a race event.

In the UK, it depends where you go. I think Donnington was 105, MSV run places are 101, some are 98, but those are all for passenger car track days.

Mallory Park has quite a low limit, but they seem to let anyone in, unless they're running a screamer pipe and really taking the piss.
Bedford has quite a high limit, but it's the line, no exceptions.

Aus has a lot of uninhabited land I guess, we don't.

some tracks do have noise limits but its never actually ever enforced

alot of people run screamers and straight through systems


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4syqAGyG5o
Vid of a drift prac a little while ago
JPC s15 with an rb28, screamer pipe and 3.5" straight through exhaust

you really cannot comprehend how loud this thing was

Still some paperwork left, then MOT, new plates and it's ready to roll.