Quote from amp88 :

Aside from Hamilton Alonso is good, Webber's shown a few decent moves (excepting Valencia ) and so did Button last year.

I don't think Kobayashi has the car to get close enough to people to do the kind of overtakes your talking about anyway.

I voted for Hülkenberg, but I would vote for Kobayashi. He is really good (and crazy) racer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnPc_Z-QQjM

First one was out of control. He admitted that in the interview. He seemed to learn from that and the other moves were fantastic. The move on RB in the williams was from a long way back but he barely overshot the corner which to me shows how good he was under the brakes there. Just be glad hes not like most other drivers in F1 and will just sit back and wait for a mistake (that rarely happens these days!).

Quote from sil3ntwar :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnPc_Z-QQjM

First one was out of control. He admitted that in the interview. He seemed to learn from that and the other moves were fantastic. The move on RB in the williams was from a long way back but he barely overshot the corner which to me shows how good he was under the brakes there. Just be glad hes not like most other drivers in F1 and will just sit back and wait for a mistake (that rarely happens these days!).

Video is epic.

Quote from amp88 :

He may have been in control of what he was doing in the majority of the moves, but he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing in any of them.

You're never really in control of what the other driver is doing. There is always a trust factor involved when a driver is trying to pass another. So to say "he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing" is an unrealistic criticism.

Aside from the first pass on Jaime Alguersuari, all the other so-called "divebombs" could have been prevented by adequately covering the inside line. None of the drivers did that. Alguersuari tried to defend against the second pass by covering the inside, but Kobayashi outplayed him by passing around the outside (which was very cleanly done)! So really, the drivers all had a choice: try to defend the inside line and be passed around the outside, or hold the outside position and get divebombed. They all got corralled into making one of two bad choices, and that sort of corralling takes skill.

Quote from samjh :

You're never really in control of what the other driver is doing. There is always a trust factor involved when a driver is trying to pass another. So to say "he wasn't in control of what his opponents were doing" is an unrealistic criticism.

I agree. That wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that his moves were all dangerous because even though he was in control of his own car (in the majority of moves) he wasn't in control of his opponents' cars. Of course, you're never in control of your opponents' cars, but if you have a full car's overlap and you have the inside line for the next corner your opponent doesn't have many options to ruin your attempt at the pass (or to be unaware you're trying to overtake and turn in as though you're not there). When you're making a divebomb from 10 or 20 or more metres back those options get much larger and it's a lot easier to end up with a crash like the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0SxqHFhxYCoulthard vs Wurz one from 2008[/url].

Quote from amp88 :

I agree. That wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that his moves were all dangerous because even though he was in control of his own car (in the majority of moves) he wasn't in control of his opponents' cars. Of course, you're never in control of your opponents' cars, but if you have a full car's overlap and you have the inside line for the next corner your opponent doesn't have many options to ruin your attempt at the pass (or to be unaware you're trying to overtake and turn in as though you're not there). When you're making a divebomb from 10 or 20 or more metres back those options get much larger and it's a lot easier to end up with a crash like the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0SxqHFhxYCoulthard vs Wurz one from 2008[/url].

Kobayashis moves where done on much tighter corners which is why it was more effective.

Quote from amp88 :

I agree. That wasn't what I was saying. What I was saying was that his moves were all dangerous because even though he was in control of his own car (in the majority of moves) he wasn't in control of his opponents' cars. Of course, you're never in control of your opponents' cars, but if you have a full car's overlap and you have the inside line for the next corner your opponent doesn't have many options to ruin your attempt at the pass (or to be unaware you're trying to overtake and turn in as though you're not there). When you're making a divebomb from 10 or 20 or more metres back those options get much larger and it's a lot easier to end up with a crash like the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc0SxqHFhxYCoulthard vs Wurz one from 2008[/url].

But that's just a difference in judgment. TBH there are certain places where divebombs might be "safer" and more effective. That divebomb in the Coulthard video would have never worked unless the driver being passed either slows down or turns away from the apex.

That was just a poor decision by Coulthard as that corner doesn't allow divebombs very easily.

Quote from Mustafur :

Kobayashis moves where done on much tighter corners which is why it was more effective.

Exactly. There are just places on the track where ballsy passes can be pulled off and places where ballsy passes cant. From what it seems like so far, Kobayashi has very good judgment on when to make a lunge even if he overshoots himself sometimes.

This is the major difference between Sato and Kobayashi. Sato likes to just divebomb when ever he sees a slight gap (watch his indy races this year, he's retired 80% of the indy season). Kobayashi seems to be much more controlled and seems to have better judgment on where divebombs might work.

Granted he's still divebombing...but in a far inferior car I dont see a problem with that tbh.

Quote from lizardfolk :

Granted he's still divebombing...but in a modern F1 car I dont see a problem with that tbh.

fixed

I take my hat off to Kobayashi with his skill and judgement on passing. But lets not forget where he is running. In the midfield! Sure he battled off a Brawn and made a pass here and there with the front runners, however, when running at the front, on the limit lap to lap against someone whos doing the exact times as you, its alot harder to make those moves, as im sure you all know. Ive seen Lewis, Massa, Michael etc make better passes in the midfield and yes i know they have better cars, but its pretty much the same thing.

Quote from aoun :

I take my hat off to Kobayashi with his skill and judgement on passing. But lets not forget where he is running. In the midfield! Sure he battled off a Brawn and made a pass here and there with the front runners, however, when running at the front, on the limit lap to lap against someone whos doing the exact times as you, its alot harder to make those moves, as im sure you all know. Ive seen Lewis, Massa, Michael etc make better passes in the midfield and yes i know they have better cars, but its pretty much the same thing.

all of those drivers, apart from Hamilton wouldn't of done a move as good as the one Kobayashi did on Barrichello.

They would be more likely on the receiving end of it.

Quote from Mustafur :

all of those drivers, apart from Hamilton wouldn't of done a move as good as the one Kobayashi did on Barrichello.

They would be more likely on the receiving end of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... KdygY&feature=related

That was just because the surface turned to crap, not because skill was involved.

Quote from Mustafur :

That was just because the surface turned to crap, not because skill was involved.

Yea there was oil at the hairpin iirc, you can see a sawdust trail i think.