HAHAHAHA, becky and paw, are my heroes in lfs forum 
Well i'm going to be in the States in the next couple of years at some point, I could always swing by and show you some moves.
I'm more of a giver than a taker, so I hope you like screaming.
wheel hubs to racism / nationality bashing to lesbianism... what a thread.
ah but why do German cars break down so much? BMW Audi and Mercedes all have reliability issues according to Consumer Reports. So how can your machines be so expensive and "perfectly engineered" when they have average reliability at best? My guess is because Germans have no sense of cost vs. benefit vs. reliability analysis. They usually will go after benefit, cost and reliability be damned.
German engineering produces expensive cars with expensive parts that require expensive adjustments that can usually only be performed by expensive master mechanics at expensive dealerships or expensive service shops.
no thanks, not for me, though they may be wonderful to drive. American cars may be derided as shit to drive by others, but they are generally cheap and simple. And as of late, they have been getting very reliable. American engineers will usually look at cost first, trying to improve the profit margin as much as possible. If you can just build every car a little cheaper, you can save millions for your company. It got so bad in the 80s and 90s that reliability and function suffered badly, and people noticed. Recently there seems to be a shift to correct this problem and bring the reliability back up, which is good to see.
wildly different design philosophies, which is one reason DaimlerChrysler was never going to work out. Don't get me wrong, I love Germany, I have some pretty strong connections to the country. but the differences in our cultures are so large that it can be very tough for Germans to understand Americans and vice versa.
And I wouldn't say one or the other is necessarily better, there are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. So you will likely never buy American, and I will never buy German.
German engineering produces expensive cars with expensive parts that require expensive adjustments that can usually only be performed by expensive master mechanics at expensive dealerships or expensive service shops.
no thanks, not for me, though they may be wonderful to drive. American cars may be derided as shit to drive by others, but they are generally cheap and simple. And as of late, they have been getting very reliable. American engineers will usually look at cost first, trying to improve the profit margin as much as possible. If you can just build every car a little cheaper, you can save millions for your company. It got so bad in the 80s and 90s that reliability and function suffered badly, and people noticed. Recently there seems to be a shift to correct this problem and bring the reliability back up, which is good to see.
wildly different design philosophies, which is one reason DaimlerChrysler was never going to work out. Don't get me wrong, I love Germany, I have some pretty strong connections to the country. but the differences in our cultures are so large that it can be very tough for Germans to understand Americans and vice versa.
And I wouldn't say one or the other is necessarily better, there are strengths and weaknesses to both approaches. So you will likely never buy American, and I will never buy German.
no theyre all fat guys in stained wife beaters pretending to be girls
i dunno... why do cars in the us break down so much in general? im in florida right now and so far on every single journey ive seen at least 3 stranded cars on the side of the road... and most of them were quite new no older than 5 years by the looks of it
maybe thats a us thing
in germany german cars arent really all that expensive especially not if you stick to vw and used 3 series or a4s or similar (a mint condition e46 will probably set you back 6-8k euros)
also most cars in germany (german or otherwise) run fine for 15+ years without any major problems
the rental camaro i got right now is a piece of something unpleasant
certainly doesnt stand for every american car but considering its americas attempt at something sporty and good to drive i dont even wanna know what a bad american car is like
not that i particularly like german cars (most of them are dull beyond what words can express) but id honestly take a golf over the camaro any day (or any car with a manual for that matter)
i have no intention of buying a german car any time soon either
ill stick to italian and japanese for now as they at least didnt forget how to make fun cars until relatively recently (ie right around the time honda decided to discontinue the s2000)
but theres more to engineering than cars and if were honest quite a few of the biggest american successes in engineering are actually german
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
Okay, You took (1) country and took (1) bad thing about it and said "oh look these cars are so much better"
You can't do that, Just like Toyota cars can't stop, Ford cars have airbags that can deploy unintentionally, Mercedes c230's have numerous problems ( Some come defective, It can't be helped ) And Bentley has hood ornaments that don't retract in a crash.
Does that mean you can classify all cars that come from that country suck? Hell no you can't. Just because some dweeble nerd had a piston that knocked, And about another 5000 or so have it does not mean the whole production line is shit.
Before you(s) As a person, Says American cars suck, I would love for you to know, That America is probably the only country that can pull itself out of the water with the same cars you call bullshit, Detroit holds Ford and GM, When stimulus came out, Ford did not take a cent from it, Meanwhile, everyone's getting unemployed, And Detroit gets left behind. 6 Months later ford is telling the government to go **** themselves as ford pulled some 1.20+ billion more than expected in annual revenue ( Or profit, Can't remember off the top of my head ).
You might be thinking - What the hell does this have to do with anything, Well, Read on. Since Detroit was left behind, Truckers went on strike, etc, It went to hell in a hand-basket. Now since Detroit pulled themselves out, They will need trucks to ship across states, That's jobs for truckers, Salesmen, Etc. That's pretty amazing for the cars you(s) insinuated where shit.
Becky - Stop getting the hornies for me, I know I must be straight beautiful in your mind, But I'm not quite ready for any lesbianism. ( maaybe..
)But I do love screaming.
Edit.
Wow, Nice letting us know you're that sad lonely basement nerd that things men control the internet and can't except that there might be some different gender out on the internet.
Your point? Why not tell us the make and model of the cars, And why does it matter you are in Florida? Are you still on the US cars suck rofllolol shit?
Who really wants a VW. Cars everywhere run fine for 15+ years, Depends are if you a dick with it or if you take care of it.
Okay seriously, You're starting to piss me off, If the Camaro is so bad, Go fly yourself a VW ( God those cars suck ) You're the people that just don't understand anything but your own nationality. Would you like me to say everything American sucks? Go drive a mustang. They come in manuals. So do Camaro's.
Jappanese cars are fun but they can only go some 8,000+ miles from what I hear without repair.
I'm pretty sure some German stuff is American as well.
when driven by americans (some 97ish% of all reported cases turned out to be people who were too stupid to tell the brake and gas pedal apart)
You're ****ing heartless, Tell that to the four family members that died that where going 55 MPH in a 60 MPH zone, Now I'm seriously pissed at you. It was the floor mats they thought, Then it was mechanical, What, Does the metal crafted from the USA kill people too? Seriously, Go **** off in a German village before you make me fly down to wherever the hell you are and make me kick your ass.
Calm down my sweetheart, btw, you sound sexy when you are angry, it make me hot
still failing on the sense of humour front i see
i dont have the time to look at them that closely and neither do i recognise any of the cars driving around here
the point is that they are either rubbish or (more likely) badly serviced and that its something that just doesnt happen anywhere near as often back home
because its important that im currently on us roads and have recent first hand experience with the difference in the amount of standed cars between europe and the us
possiböly but then again ive hardly seen any cars older than maybe 5 years round here... might just bee that the area round here is well off... or maybe cars just dont last long here
wrong
except its impossible to get a manual rental in a country where no one has the first idea how to operate a clutch
you heard wrong then
or maybe you consider an oil change and an annual service and check up to be repair
that lexus story prompted some rather long discussion back in the day
lets look at some facts
1) the guy driving was a traffic cop (so he should have had loads of driving experience) and the following remedies didnt occur to him
2) pressing the brake pedal will stop any car even with the gas pedal stuck at full throttle (ignoring the rare exceptions of badly tuned cars with big engines and brakes that werent upgraded to match the new engine)
3) it didnt occur to him to put the car in neutral
4) it didnt occur to him to turn the engine off
5) it didnt occur to him to reach down an yank on the floor mat
6) he had plenty of time to think of all these... heck he even had the time to call 911... and they werent able to think of these 3 perfecly viable and 100% effective solutions either
additionally off the top of my head it was the only case of a runaway toyota that was proven to be a mechanical issue (although calling a stuck floormat a mechanical issue is streching it a bit)
Hmm, Well maybe if you thought of the technical details before you pulled your head out of your ass you might have not stirred that up don't you agree? Calling him a " American " Just because the car ****ed up ( It isn't made in the US, And it's not really mattering now ) That dude is dead, So is his family! The fact that you call him a American and the fact that he ****ed up because he was one means you're a heartless bastard that deserves to be hung in public, Maybe when your VW crashes into a tree at +150 KPH I'll just be laughing my ass off at your window like "SEE? GERMANS ****ED UP DIDN'T THEY!" Maybe even do a dance, You disgust me.
Read, I said "It was the floor mats they thought, Then it was mechanical" That does not mean a peice of fabric has turned mechanical.
whell he was an american and the only reports of runaway toyotas were in the us (probably largely because anyone in the rest of the world would automatically press the clutch if the engine did anything unexpected and unwanted)
well he was an american citizen working for the us government... so what else would i call him?
maybe... but its a little untoward to say something like that considering you only know me from this thread in which ive hardly said anything that wasnt either correct or toungue in cheek (most of which you didnt get)
for what its worth i dont drive a vw and neither do i particularly like them (see the comment about german cars being boring somehwere above)... they are decently engineered however
iirc it was never made public what actually caused that particularly car to accelerate
the fact that he had plenty of options and time to stop the car remains though
Maybe you should think about automatic cars not having clutches standard in US. What would be the point in a transmission that does it for you.
You could have a moment of ****ing humanity and call him deceased. Does it matter he was American at that time? If it was a German, Could I call him retarded? And that ever other German is retarded? Oh wait, Just poking fun! I can because I'm from the US! nahnahnahnahnaaah. F*** off.
I know enough to say you're a dick, And thats a good grasp of what you probably are in real life too unless you treat internet like a sandbox thus giving you privileges to run around like a 5 year old on a sugar rush, Yes.
Maybe you don't get the shit your shoveling, doc.
People don't think rationally when they are scared shitless, I'm sure he tried what he thought would work, Maybe it didn't work, He's still dead, That doesn't mean you can pop off with smart ass remarks like you thought he could have done better, What were you grading his performance?
Anyway, I'm not doing this anymore with you, Your smartass mind will obviously not ever change, I pitty you. Must be rough not knowing what emotional feelings feel like.
i said the rest of the world
it does matter insofar as that the us was the only country in the world where people were having problems with runaway toyotas
he was a cop so he most likely was trained to stay calm under stress
additionally he had both the time and clam to call 911 and do a 1 to 1 1/2 minute long phonecall
and the guy who responded to his 911 who certainly wasnt stressed wasnt able to think of any of these solutions either
i do know them just fine
but it must be rough going through life getting emotional about random strangers youve never met or even heard of before
I think if Americans do break down more often (and I'm not saying they do) it's because most of them can't drive.
No offense meant to any of the Americans here who can drive, but let's be honest the general standard over there is shocking.
No offense meant to any of the Americans here who can drive, but let's be honest the general standard over there is shocking.
i have to say drivers round here arent that terrible
theyre generally quite aware of cars around them... theyre useless at reading traffic patters though mostly but thats mostly because they dont really exist
they also drive extremely defensively which you can exploit to no end if youre used to the cat and mice games that go on on german roads and autobahns in particular
the stoplight planning is aweful though... when youre going in a straigh line and keeping to the speed limit most of them turn red right when you arrive at them
theyre generally quite aware of cars around them... theyre useless at reading traffic patters though mostly but thats mostly because they dont really exist
they also drive extremely defensively which you can exploit to no end if youre used to the cat and mice games that go on on german roads and autobahns in particular
the stoplight planning is aweful though... when youre going in a straigh line and keeping to the speed limit most of them turn red right when you arrive at them
*scratches head* no hornies here. Or sandwiching for that matter...
As for this whole German versus American car debate I think it's a bit immature and silly that strong feelings are presiding over something so silly.
People buy the cars that appeal to them. Neither German or American cars appeal to me although given a choice i'd probably go American, but cars are only for getting from A to B in.
Race cars, now that's another matter: and that's not something American companies have ever done terribly well on the international stage.
ever been to the alps? or the isle of man maybe?
That's what motorcycles are for
At first I was like tl;dr.
But then I was like :munching_
I love this thread.
But then I was like :munching_
I love this thread.
+1Erm, your the one taking "American" as an insult...
As lovely is this discussion is, the "best" answer i've had to so far is the one that is the most wrong.
Well then, You'll just have to ask car people.
But Wikipedia is probably right. ( In this case )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_cap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lug_nut
The bolt circle is the circle determined by the positions of the bolts; the center of every bolt lies on the circumference of the bolt circle.
The important measurement is the "pitch circle diameter" (PCD), usually expressed in millimeters, although inches are sometimes used. For a 4- or 6-bolt car, this measurement is merely the distance between the center of two diametrically opposite bolts. In the 4-bolt picture to the right, this would be the distance between holes #1 and #4. Some basic geometry is needed to find the center of a 5-bolt pattern: But basically, the PCD can be found by multiplying the center distance between any two adjacent holes by 1.701.
Generally, the PCD can be calculated for any wheel from the number of bolts (n) and the measured center distance between two adjacent bolts (d) as; PCD = d / SIN(180°/n).
A 1974 MG B is a 4/4.5" (4/114.3) car, meaning it is, again, a 4-bolt pattern with a 4.5" or 114.3 mm bolt circle.
The most common PCD values are 100 mm and 114.3 mm. This difference arises from the manufacturers' measurement convention - whether they are designing around metric values (100 mm) or imperial values (4.5 inches, i.e. 114.3 mm).
Note: there are exceptions and some metric car models have imperial rims (4.5").
It should also be noted that some manufacturers specify the distance between two adjacent bolts, and some specify it as the distance between two opposite bolts (or 2nd bolt along on a 5 bolt hub).
This is because the PCD standard is non-standardised
Some manufacturers include the number of bolts in the measurement, and some bundle the offset (distance between the centre line of the wheel and the hub facing on the wheel) as part of the PCD too.
So whilst one manufacturer will quote a PCD of 4100ET30, others will quote an entirely different number and consider the offset and bolt pattern as totally seperate information.
I am trying to match alloy wheels to cars for a web site client at the moment, and it's a nightmare getting the data. I would like to let people specify their car and show them what wheels fit, and also list the cars that each wheel fits on the product pages - but it's going to take me months just to get all the data in and standardise it, let alone calculate which cars have wheel arches or suspension struts which may obstruct the wheel when it reaches it's full turning circle. *sigh*
Nightmare. Absolute nightmare.
Wheel Hubs
(96 posts, started )
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