Quote from JPeace :

Evidence would be a reply from Scawen, Victor or anyone like that. Because then that is evidence of their activities and what they imply to do, otherwise it is just an idea within somebodies head.

Well, I have enough evidence that Scawen does not have the slighest idea who keeps his game running. For example, the demo environment would be in a very bad shape if EQ Worry wasn't there with the [AA] servers and didn't wrote a great InSim.

Also there are some pretty well organized teams out here which have difficulty to keep the LFS spirit up against games as Rfactor and Iracing.

It's pretty arrogant to not communicate at all to at least your biggest supporters or not even know who they are! In some sort of way it's a disconnection from your own project. And this support will start to fail eventually, I think by the end of this year. (Little bit afraid of Rfactor2, well afraid, I'd move too if it's good).

But who cares anyway, this was just a personal project and a bonus income. Nothing more.

This situation keeps the motivation low to make progress.

On the bright side, there is stuff laying around like the Rockingham track which could be easily be released to keep the regular gamers happy. Just like the Z-patches of last year... But nothing gets released at all, so you might say something bigger is coming up.

Or, Scawen has big personal problems in life... Also a possibility. But this ongoing silence is not helping the start of all these kind of speculations at all.

The excuse that the physics are wrong and therefore don't release nothing anymore for two full years now, who still believes that story?

I mean, how difficult is it to make / design at least some tracks and release those?

Quote from cargame.nl :

[snip]
The excuse that the physics are wrong and therefore don't release nothing anymore for two full years now, who still believes that story? [snip]

That's the great question, but it is partly understandable. That is, the physics part. This is pretty much a guess here, but I believe this stuff is far more complex than it seems at first. It's just a tire touching the ground, but there's so much going on there. Besides, we know that Scawen's not only doing the tires, he's working on other stuff as well.

The part that's annoying as hell is pretty much everything concerning graphics, where I feel work could be done faster by a snail randomly moving across a keyboard.

ya, a snail in the empty office.

im becoming sad when i see something like this
http://simracing.sk/images/stories/rfactor2/10_09_30/1.jpg i know, i can make my own simulator, or buy something else i want...but everyone knows its not gonna happen, because lfs is the best price/"value" so i just leave it here to let everyone know what makes me sad tonight

Quote from boosterfire :

The part that's annoying as hell is pretty much everything concerning graphics, where I feel work could be done faster by a snail randomly moving across a keyboard.

Exactly my thoughts. A good example are the renewed cockpits, which were meant to be released ages ago. But we all know the eloquent and customer-friendly statement of the self-proclaimed 'least favourite developer' concerning his work...

Go play the new nfs with no cockpits at all (cock-pit-s)

Quote from cargame.nl :

On the bright side, there is stuff laying around like the Rockingham track which could be easily be released to keep the regular gamers happy. Just like the Z-patches of last year... But nothing gets released at all, so you might say something bigger is coming up.

I guess S3 will contain only real tracks and cars, it seems logical for me then delay would be partly justified.

Quote from boosterfire :

Besides, we know that Scawen's not only doing the tires, he's working on other stuff as well.

Who said that? If I remember correctly Scawen told that he will take care of other stuff (like suspension) when tyre physics will be done.

Quote from adamshl :

Who said that? If I remember correctly Scawen told that he will take care of other stuff (like suspension) when tyre physics will be done.

It's in the OP of this thread.

Quote from adamshl :

Who said that? If I remember correctly Scawen told that he will take care of other stuff (like suspension) when tyre physics will be done.

Quote from Scawen :

Most of the remaining development is in the following sections :

- Tyre heating and cooling
- AI driver improvements
- Limited setup system
- Suspension updates
- VW stability control

"remaining development" to me mean "development before it's ready to release"

Quote from tristancliffe :

If I was Scawen, I'd keep it unreleased for even longer (whilst adding further things of course) just to annoy the stupid people that think they're owed something, rather than release it and add the further stuff with patches. Just to be annoying.

Heh, either you're just taking the piss again or... you're proud of that for some bizarre reason.

Everyone's gotten what they've paid for, of course Scawen doesn't "owe" the community anything, any more than you "owe" someone a "thank you" in any situation where there is to be no further exchange of money & goods.

But the only people I know who would ignore you when you speak to them are pretty self important. Or maybe they're deaf, and then they only come across as self important even though they're probably a great person.

Don't know what's with all the hate. Just be patient. I'd rather have them take time, and get it done right, rather than have something a bit iffy released sooner.

Quote from amp88 :

snip

Quote from boosterfire :

snip

Funny, old story ...
However, next progress reports were related to tyre physics only, right?

When for question (after 7 months since publication of first report):

Quote :

Sorry to ask but how is the VW stability control, suspension updates and limited setup system?

Scawen responded:

Quote :

Those things are not done yet. I am not expecting them to be too difficult though. But where have I heard that before?

Something tells me that you are wrong.

Quote from adamshl :

Who said that? If I remember correctly Scawen told that he will take care of other stuff (like suspension) when tyre physics will be done.

Quote from adamshl :

Scawen responded: Those things are not done yet. I am not expecting them to be too difficult though. But where have I heard that before?

Something tells me that you are wrong.

This is not coherent. Where did Scawen say he was delaying the other improvements just to finish the tyre improvements?

Quote from amp88 :

This is not coherent. Where did Scawen say he was delaying the other improvements just to finish the tyre improvements?

I don't think he did. Also, he didn't say he'd release the tire improvements individually, before working (or finishing work) on the rest.

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

If you create an audio guide on comprehensive reading, then maybe you could also create one called "Public Relations for Dummies".

I am actually working in PR, and I actually do think that the best PR is honesty. He said what's up, he said why he did certain things, and why he did NOT do certain things. Perfect PR IMHO.
Also, I think that the seeimg lack of info actually generates a thrill in the community that's much more effective than flooding it with tidbits, especially if he has to cut out features again because they don't work.

The "lack" of info is also just a misconception by the community. We actually know all there is to know. We only get the feeling of lacking progress and/or information because Scawen isn't constantly repeating himself every few days. Honestly, what kind of insight would we gain if Scawen would post "still working on it" every week?

What about giving a update of things that are not the physics or the ugly Scirocco.. maybe some people are interested in knowing what's happening with the tracks that have been around since 2004/05

Quote from The Very End :

What about giving a update of things that are not the physics or the ugly Scirocco.. maybe some people are interested in knowing what's happening with the tracks that have been around since 2004/05

good question, what about updates unrelated to physics. scawen said eric can release updates by himself, why isnt he?
atleast a progress report abot erics work.

And are we going ever to get the annuncement of S3 car anytime? Scirocco was annnunced end of 2008, Rockingham end of 2009, S3 car end of 2010?

yes, every year at the end we get another announcement till everyone gets bored of announcing...lfs says were making tyre physics, iracing releases it without announcing...lfs says now the S3, then rfactor 2 will be released...with new graphics, raining, physics and everything...

Quote from ColeusRattus :

I am actually working in PR, and I actually do think that the best PR is honesty. He said what's up, he said why he did certain things, and why he did NOT do certain things. Perfect PR IMHO.

Yes, that was perfect PR. He stated a whole bunch of actually very interesting things that were interesting to read, the basic summary of what he'd encountered for the previous months. What's so crappy about dispersing little tidbits like that here and there? He always says "he doesn't want to", and that's where the buck stops ultimately, but when taking 5 minutes to speak about things quelled this useless thread for some weeks, you'd think he'd be inclined to do that more often. But again, he's not, so all discussion is moot.

Quote :

Also, I think that the seeimg lack of info actually generates a thrill in the community

Yes this thread is full of thrill!

Quote :

The "lack" of info is also just a misconception by the community. We actually know all there is to know. We only get the feeling of lacking progress and/or information because Scawen isn't constantly repeating himself every few days. Honestly, what kind of insight would we gain if Scawen would post "still working on it" every week?

Well like I said if you look at his posts somewhere in the middle of this mess, he managed basically a full page post about working on the "same thing all this time" that turned out to be rather intersting. For having nothing to report, he said some very insightful things. You make it sound like he's been staring at the same formula for months doing nothing but thinking; I really doubt that's the case.

Ultimately like Tristan said he "owes" the forum nothing, I'll just never understand the attitude of ignoring people who are genuinely interested in your project of passion. Not that I have to understand it.

Quote from JPeace :

Not being funny mate, but why would scawen, and you all talk as if it is only scawen on his own, which isn't true but anyway, gives a damn about demo? Yes of course demo is the first impression of the game and needs to be decent for people to then buy S2, but if demo was so good, then why would people want to buy S2, when they can get the good stuff for free. Yes EQ did him a favour, but then there are always going to be people who do stuff like that, and im sure they all forsaw that.

All in all, my general point, if it hasn't been clear, is why spend all that time improving demo, instead make the next 'level' up significantly better so when the demo driver does consider buying S1, S2 or in the future S3, it will look drastically better than demo - and therefore much more appealing.

I agree with this, if anything the demo should have more content removed.
Back in the day when the best driftcar(XRT) in the game was available in demo, people would spend years playing demo without ever buying the game.

in response to ball bearing turbos post,,with Tristan saying that he owes the forum nothing,,but this isnt just a forum we are payed customers to the lfs game so maybe just a tiny bit of info about progress on s3 may help people out on the subject,,il always say they have done an excellent job so far and agree that with all the combos of playing theres plenty of fun to be had,but there is a lot of people who have stuck with the game since 2005

Quote from ColeusRattus :

We actually know all there is to know.

So that means Eric has only reproduced one track (not designed) and allegedly finish car interiors in what... more than two years? And only posted a few pictures of the former? That's good PR? That's creating a thrill? Nope, it's creating anger.

I don't get the whole "I don't have to report to anyone" thing. Eric works slowly, period. Besides, why doesn't he want to show us his work? Shouldn't he be eager to post his progress, or finished stuff online so that we can be in awe?

Prove me wrong, Eric! Prove. Me. Wrong.

i agree boosterfire,,and with it being said that its good pr,i reckon they should think about more training in the subject,,