Hi all, been racing LFS for a while on and off.

Last night in a race at AS I got a blue flag warning coming into a chicane. I kept it steady and was going to move over on the exit from the chicane and let the faster car through. Instead of looking at the situation the faster guy barreled straight in and hit me. Then started calling me a c**t and giving me abuse for ruining his race. I did exactly what I should have done, he caused the accident! If this is the way it is in LFS these days, I don't think I will bother :-(

Patrick

don't take it personally, there are some numptys out there who think they own the road and such...

No one should have to put up with that sort of abuse.
But don't let the ignorant minority get you down

What server were you on?, maybe you could report the foul mouthed player to the server admin?

Do you have the replay?

SD.

If you started the race from the grid you did right, given that there isn't another side to this story.

If you joined mid-race, I'd be inclined to agree with the other racer's sentiment, but disagree with their approach (insulting). My rule on joining mid-race is to never interfere with an ongoing race, unless I catch up with cars in my own class and can race for position.

I've come to the conclusion that i came into LFS past its peak.

I try to be considerate about the people around me, giving them room and trying not to wipe us both out if possible, but some people are impossible to deal with and push you out the way into others etc, i've pretty much given up any racing i wanted to do because i could never get into a race where people were considerate of others. Maybe i was the one doing something wrong, who knows.

I don't have the replay, i'm not sure how far I would get with a conversation with the server admin. Thanks for the replies though. [QUOTE=Klutch;1516510]I've come to the conclusion that i came into LFS past its peak.
I think I agree with you, I first started racing on LFS when the MRT5 came out (can't remember exeactly when that was), then the racing seemed to me to be better. Racers seemed to be more interested in good driving and good racing rather, today it seems to be about the accumulation of points and stats and good driving and racecraft comes second. I realise of course that this is a simulation, but just as in real life driving a fast car means that you have to use it responsibly if everyone is to get the most out of their racing. Maybe I will have a look at iRacing, it looks as though the setup there might require better driving from the competitors. Patrick

Quote from PatrickA :

... today it seems to be about the accumulation of points and stats and good driving and racecraft comes second. I realise of course that this is a simulation, but just as in real life driving a fast car means that you have to use it responsibly if everyone is to get the most out of their racing.

Sadly this is the perception one gets when they race at "popular" public servers. I have to agree with you, though - quite a lot of drivers that I come across don't have any respect what-so-ever to other drivers around them, and yet some drive at record pace.

IMO, at the moment there are 3 ways you can get about this -
i) Get involved in leauge racing (where driving standards are better, from what I hear)
ii) Find servers where the majority are respectful drivers - these are few and far apart (and are not quite as popular most of the time - less than 15 or so drivers), but there are still a few out there - find them, jump in and be regular respectful driver
iii) Go with the flow - join in the most populated server, give others a wide berth and just hope for the best in T1

For me ii and iii works alright. I'm quite slow and off-pace in most cars/tracks, but staying out trouble (and away from troublesome drivers) will help you reach the finish ahead the rest.

What you got to realize is that there are a number of people who don't treat LFS as a serious online racing simulator. Kids who want to thrash around the fastest cars?

But don't let that put you off - there are A LOT of fast/respectful/helpful drivers out there. Once you find them, hang on!

Quote from Silverracer :

But don't let that put you off - there are A LOT of fast/respectful/helpful drivers out there.

I think that's the key, I enjoy driving in LFS and if everyone like me just gave up then it wouldn't survive - since Scawen and the others don't run a subscription model they rely on people sticking with it. I'll look into league racing a bit more - any advice for a good league to start with? Patrick

Quote from Klutch :

I've come to the conclusion that i came into LFS past its peak.

I try to be considerate about the people around me, giving them room and trying not to wipe us both out if possible, but some people are impossible to deal with and push you out the way into others etc, i've pretty much given up any racing i wanted to do because i could never get into a race where people were considerate of others. Maybe i was the one doing something wrong, who knows.

You are like me, i do the same, i`m very respectfull driver and safe too, sadly every time i try to be a fair racer one kid or noob ramm me or use my rear bumper as a brake

The famous what did I do wrong..

I normally race Cargame.nl S2, There is a fair share of complete idiots, to crashers, To great racers, Some really need to review what the blue flag means, It means you MUST not contest or attempt to block him, Since you are not getting positions off him. This doesn't mean you haul ass to a armco and let him fly by. I've gotten ****s in FZR's that will actually take you off the track and say " Blue falg, idiot **** lololo" And that really sucks when you are racing close to guys that are good and know how to control their cars respectively. However some people need to learn how to race their class and not cause complete mayhem, When you have a grid of a few GTR's, Some UFRs, XFRs, LX's and TBO, The LX class thinks they are the tee-total shit and try to race ahead of the UFR and XFR, And this only causes drivers to have another car to look out for, Not to mention we're talking about a common layout which is aston, everyone thunders down the straight like a bat out of hell, being way to pushy and ending several peoples races in one shot, At that crash, The LX's are to be at fault 90% of the time, I can't tell you how many times i've been passed by LX's on the first lap, all fighting for position, ****ing up the race for the main half of the field, That's when you see some insulting words.

However some people do need to understand everyone is trying to beat someone on the race track, And if you see a FZR battling a FXR, It would help if you weren't in a fight of your own to go off the groove sometimes, Take the outside lane in the chicane, Be respective that they cannot stop if you are going to slow and they also should not need to end their fight if they have a blue flag on you. However from a faster cars point of view, We do see sometimes we own the track, When any "R" ( GTR - XFR, UFR, XRR, FZR FXR ) car is coming at you, Even if we don't have a blue flag, there is barely a chance in hell you guys are going to be faster than us and you are the sole cause of many countless racing headaches , Even if you don't have a blue flag if you aren't racing him/her for position then please scoot over, you're suppose to only race cars in your class. LX != GTR

I guess you could say that "Most" of the slower cars are at fault, Not all the time, but at least 55% of all crashes with a faster and slower car without a blue flag. You could say the same for FWD vs RWD vehicles, Unless the RWD dude knows how to get in corners well ( Comparing LX6 to XFR ) There is no way you will beat the XFR in corners, He/she will only understeer, You however will slide and crash and burn. It's also nice to remember that a faster car. Most faster racers or more advanced, Will tap you gently ( See: Divebombing ) That just makes you take a outer line, if a faster car is behind you & you are not fighting for position just let him by on the inside if you must to save countless headaches for you and him/her. I've always wondered why they did that even in LFS, In most servers you are racing for points now so friendliness has shot out the window as well as respect, I mainly race with a 7Karat buddy and two friends from Xcite (Not promoting) And they are always very friendly.

However sometimes a faster car is not at fault and neither are you, If you loose control or are going slower, Maybe you spun out, You have to remember you are racing with a 90 - 200 MS difference between you and him, and your actions and car will lag behind for him/her, He/she might see your car dive off the track only to teleport into you and you all see what out of bounds looks like, And sometimes a judgment in error will cause a problem as well, like a RWD car stepping out in-front of a FWD, Even with a blue flag and clear road accidents can and most likely will happen.

I mainly stay out of the action because I'm 4 seconds off the world record for most tracks, So I am not in with alot of super fast LXes or really fast XFR's, I assume they could get quite pissed at you ruining their races. But I tend to not dump the clutch and fly out of the starting line, One time I dropped 15 spots to 30th and went to first because of a slight error in a FZR's judgment. So being slower never hurts.

That was pretty damn long winded, But that's just my point of view, And if in doubt, Shift out ( That made no sense at all but I felt like I needed to say something ironic to help my point and have a catchy one liner! ) But more realistically, When in doubt, Two feet in.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Snip

Hi, I race at Cargame too and I race LX6.
Ofcourse, there are some idiots that think that LX6 is faster than UFR/XFR. Ofcourse, off the line that is true, but they try to stay ahead after they get ahead.
I know that they should be backing off in the first place, without even passing the UFR's/XFR's.
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I know that we should back off, but even if some people do start to back off, there will always be a few braindead people who will not, therefore getting a big advantage at the start. So the smart people would be at a big disadvantage. So really, I dont think that this problem will ever stop, we can hope though.
Zay

Quote from Zay :

Hi, I race at Cargame too and I race LX6.
Ofcourse, there are some idiots that think that LX6 is faster than UFR/XFR. Ofcourse, off the line that is true, but they try to stay ahead after they get ahead.
I know that they should be backing off in the first place, without even passing the UFR's/XFR's.
Anyway, what I'm getting at is that I know that we should back off, but even if some people do start to back off, there will always be a few braindead people who will not, therefore getting a big advantage at the start. So the smart people would be at a big disadvantage. So really, I dont think that this problem will ever stop, we can hope though.
Zay

Wow, I completely missed your point, I can start in the back of a grid (So I avoid T1 destruction derby mode) and pass most of the XFR's at least before lap 3/4 on Kyoto GP, Not everyone needs to back off, There should be a starting system that starts classes by themselves, Like GTR, Gets a 5 second head start against LX, LX can be mixed with TBO for fairness, Then NGT, Each one having a 5 second lead.

This sounds pretty unfair even to me, But it would be alot safer, If only someone could code that. But cargame is fine the way it is, lots of safer barriers and stuff to keep your car in track, I've found in blackwood (rev) That it helps to be on the outside of t1, Because the next turn is to your advantage ( You on inside ) Which has got me clipped a few times, But everytime (EVERYTIME) You start a race with XFR's nobody gives you a inch of room, They all fly their asses to a downwards slow chicane and ass rape the car in-front of them.

If everyone drove safer we wouldn't have a problem, But you have pros mixed with novices ( No offense to anyone ) And the guys that can brake soo late in a corner and the guys that brake early, Some people get ass backwards on who does what and just assume they brake on the racing line.. most just don't brake at all...

I suppose if you can go 150+ in a machine that looks like dogshit it's all well.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

Wow, I completely missed your point, I can start in the back of a grid (So I avoid T1 destruction derby mode) and pass most of the XFR's at least before lap 3/4 on Kyoto GP, Not everyone needs to back off, There should be a starting system that starts classes by themselves, Like GTR, Gets a 5 second head start against LX, LX can be mixed with TBO for fairness, Then NGT, Each one having a 5 second lead.

i don't get why each class can't race on it's own... it would solve a lot of those "my car is faster than yours" problems...

Quote from Zay :

I know that they should be backing off in the first place, without even passing the UFR's/XFR's.

You know incorrectly . Backing off and waiting for the UFRs to gather speed is never, ever going to work. ALL LRFs would be driving as if they were on a formation lap until at least split one, good luck with that. Moving slowly in a crowded start grid is going to end in disaster, there's always someone fast starting behind you who has to take an evasive or crash into you.

Never expect someone to 'let' a faster class past for a position. I'll take my normal racing lines in an LRF, and if your car with slicks can't get past, that's a right shame. What I won't do though is block or take defensive lines, I prefer they do pass me ASAP so that I don't have to worry about being rear-ended by GTR heros and weekend warriors.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

There should be a starting system that starts classes by themselves, Like GTR, Gets a 5 second head start against LX, LX can be mixed with TBO for fairness, Then NGT, Each one having a 5 second lead.

Staggering the start for different classes is surely going to make things worse, especially if you do it for each class, this would mean the gtr's are already 15 seconds ahead of the tbo class, which means (especially on the shorter tracks) they will catch up the back of the grid for lapping quicker than usual, also it gives less time for the back markers to break apart meaning when the faster cars come to lapping they will have to deal with a whole pack of tbo's

Quote from bunder9999 :

i don't get why each class can't race on it's own... it would solve a lot of those "my car is faster than yours" problems...

I don't understand.. It's not about who can get there the fastest it's the fastest & safest. Every class can have a race with their own class, It's how Cargame.nl is set up, You race your own class. It doesn't matter if you become first in a XFG vs a FZR and a few UFR, You don't get any points as you are in a separate race, Theoretically speaking.

Quote from GAVD999 :

Staggering the start for different classes is surely going to make things worse, especially if you do it for each class, this would mean the gtr's are already 15 seconds ahead of the tbo class, which means (especially on the shorter tracks) they will catch up the back of the grid for lapping quicker than usual, also it gives less time for the back markers to break apart meaning when the faster cars come to lapping they will have to deal with a whole pack of tbo's

Most tracks split up cars into 1 line at the end of lap one, But I see how this could be a problem, I was just suggesting something like that, I didn't completely think though all it's faults, I'm not that smart.

Quote from NotAnIllusion :

You know incorrectly . Backing off and waiting for the UFRs to gather speed is never, ever going to work. ALL LRFs would be driving as if they were on a formation lap until at least split one, good luck with that. Moving slowly in a crowded start grid is going to end in disaster, there's always someone fast starting behind you who has to take an evasive or crash into you.

Never expect someone to 'let' a faster class past for a position. I'll take my normal racing lines in an LRF, and if your car with slicks can't get past, that's a right shame. What I won't do though is block or take defensive lines, I prefer they do pass me ASAP so that I don't have to worry about being rear-ended by GTR heros and weekend warriors.

On the first paragraph, I'm not wanting everyone to bow down to the faster cars, But you could do the faster cars a favor and stop passing them when you have inches to the grass or another car, Squeezing yourself in is what makes a problem, When you're dealing with cars that can get up to speed very very quickly, You guys are like ants to sugar for the lead.

Second Part. I respect your opinion about holding your line, But like I stated, I'm not asking for you to spread wings for a few seconds and let us by, But if it's A) Safe B) No battles between you and a person fighting for a position. Then it would be nice if you scooted over, Otherwise you're going to have a crackhead 13 year old at the wheel of a battering ram, With the attention span of a 1 month old on sugar and LSD ( Klutch anyone? ) So that is why we like you to move over, Not because we own the road but because we feel it is safer if you give us the room you need to maneuver the track, If that's a few inches from my car, I have no problem with it, But I don't know if you like to put a little tail slide through the corner to pass, Nor do I know if you will have hot tires and spin. Thus is why most people would like if you gave yourself enough room for a accident in a slower car, This is really just a general rule for everyone but in a slower car we have to think ahead of where you are going to end on a corner, Which could be right infront of us with no time to react to your movement. Me? I slow down when I get to lapped traffic, I flash my lights to indicate passing, Sometimes even tap their cars and give them a speed boost if they are nice to me. Most of the time I just flash my tail lights for a thank you.

And just so everyone knows, I'm just throwing out some opinions and experiences, And how I see some races go, In no way am I describing how it really should be.

Quote from TehPaws3D :

I don't understand.. It's not about who can get there the fastest it's the fastest & safest. Every class can have a race with their own class, It's how Cargame.nl is set up, You race your own class. It doesn't matter if you become first in a XFG vs a FZR and a few UFR, You don't get any points as you are in a separate race, Theoretically speaking.

i just feel that having more cars on track than needed is a safety hazard, especially if they're slower and lighter...

think about it... in an accident between a 3000lb GTR going 250km/h vs a 1000lb LX going 0km/h... who's going to win? the LX driver would probably be dead.

What I really dont get is people whining about slower cars in a multiclass server. There is a reminder every few minutes to **ck off to the GTR server if you can't deal with it. So DEAL or gtfo. FN simple.

Quote from JasonJ :

What I really dont get is people whining about slower cars in a multiclass server. There is a reminder every few minutes to **ck off to the GTR server if you can't deal with it. So DEAL or gtfo. FN simple.

and what about the people driving the road cars? it's not always about the fast cars being impeded by the slow cars... i'm talking about the fast cars plowing through the slow cars because they can't be bothered to pass like a normal person. multiclass racing is one thing, but when the cars vary by so much, things can get a little dangerous. that's all i'm saying.

Quote from JasonJ :

What I really dont get is people whining about slower cars in a multiclass server. There is a reminder every few minutes to **ck off to the GTR server if you can't deal with it. So DEAL or gtfo. FN simple.

It's not just about GTRs, I've been having a good TBO battle, only to run into slow LRFs. Cockblocking the corners, impossible to out run on the straights. Completely ruins nice races. That isn't about being 'a bit' slow, or new. LRFs should definitely be able to out pace TBOs every time, once they're in front. Perhaps on some tight tracks I can see LX4s mixing it up some but that's about it.

Quote from JasonJ :

What I really dont get is people whining about slower cars in a multiclass server. There is a reminder every few minutes to **ck off to the GTR server if you can't deal with it. So DEAL or gtfo. FN simple.

Leave it to someone to impede a mature conversation with language no better than " TITS OR GTFO " Thanks for your input.

Quote from bunder9999 :

and what about the people driving the road cars? it's not always about the fast cars being impeded by the slow cars... i'm talking about the fast cars plowing through the slow cars because they can't be bothered to pass like a normal person. multiclass racing is one thing, but when the cars vary by so much, things can get a little dangerous. that's all i'm saying.

Everyone hates that, That's what I hate too ( Even XFR's get pushed around, You just don't see it much )

I'll add my 0.02

IMHO, systems like Cargame are flawed. I can say that, I've been there.

Not due to the idea which is good, but the way its run. Cargame I'm not out to get you personally but I feel Cargame.nl gets too crowded with people who only care about rank.

For instance I take XFG and start at the back and spin avoiding a T1 melee, my LFS SR takes a nosedive. when I was avoiding a wreck.

I stand by what I said, and I never said 'TITS' so don't put words in my mouth thanks. If you can't control yourself in a faster car along with slower classes that have just as much right to be fighting for positions then you're in the wrong race :| Expecting everyone else to 'shoo' when no-one forces you to join the race is obnoxious.

Yeh, I agree there should be some sort of starting system. And yeh, good point NotAnIllusion. It was late last night and I was tired:P

Quote from JasonJ :

What I really dont get is people whining about slower cars in a multiclass server. There is a reminder every few minutes to **ck off to the GTR server if you can't deal with it. So DEAL or gtfo. FN simple.

So then tell me what those two lines did for the conversation?

Quote from JasonJ :

I stand by what I said, and I never said 'TITS' so don't put words in my mouth thanks. If you can't control yourself in a faster car along with slower classes that have just as much right to be fighting for positions then you're in the wrong race :| Expecting everyone else to 'shoo' when no-one forces you to join the race is obnoxious.

It's called being respectful, If you "Shoo" In a race you will not be the cause of the crash, We aren't talking about people whining about the mutliclass racing, Being unable to pass, We're talking about slower cars with faster cars and the blue flag, Anyone can say DEAL OR GTFO.

Secondly, If you want me to stop pointing to you, Why are you insulting me? I never said I can't control myself in a race, I've raced in FZ2 to XFG and I'm always respectful online. The fact is not we have to flick your car off the road but it's the fact that the drivers that cause the most crashes have the mindset of "I never have to move off my ideal line, omzg u crashed me, Get banned nubbletlololol" When it's your responsibility to give yourself enough your for you to screw up, The other guy to screw up, And room for lag. If you are not in a battle yourself you are suppose to move over, The blue flag is quite flawed, It's suppose to be if the car behind you is consistently faster than you, Which most the classes we are talking about are slower. The blue flag should come out as that car is clearly NOT in contest of you. Why would you sit in the ideal line while about 20 faster cars come battling, The least you could do is move over to not end their races. And if you are the slower car, It's your responsibility.

FN Simple.