The fact that you can play GT5 with a non-specific wheel is a HUGE plus, and yes, GT5 does feel better with the wheel than the pad, and maybe me playing FM3 with a wheel would alter my view, but basing it on pad physics (and thats all I can do, simply because I have no wheel for the xbox) FM3 blows it out of the water, its quite clear to me, that the tyre model in FM3 is way superior, likewise, LFS / iR blow both of them out of the water, and to say GT5's physics even approach LFS or iR is ridiculous.

As a complete package, FM3 is much, much better, sure, graphically its not as "special" as the "special" bits in GT5, but overall its as good, the tracks are as good, and the models / textures on the standards are a long, long way off, I mean just compare like for like, take the XJ220 in both, or the countach, you will see what I mean.

Sounds are also very, very poor, I modded my Lancia Delta, and the sounds changed, but not for the better, it has some nasty looping, and sounds more like a JCB, likewise my XJ13, sounds like a tractor, take the SLS AMG, it sounds nothing like a real one, likewise, transmission noise, and forced induction sound way off real life.

If you look at some of the cockpits in GT5:P they look great, where as some of the cockpits in GT5 are quite blurry, and just don't look as special as they do/did in GT5:P, also, the whole presentation was so, so much better in GT5:P, it feels they have taken a step backwards.

Its not all bad, rallying is fun, as is Nascar (although the physics feel a bit iffy in Nascars), Karts are also a lot of fun, online is lag free, although the options are limited.

You love it, I don't, I can live with that, but no matter what side of the fence you are on, the good news is that, with patches, it can only get better.

Quote from danowat :

I think PD need to sit down and take a long hard look at what they've produced.

not until they count their profits...

their a business...

end of.

If only LFS could supply the content of GT, it would be a perfect world. But one has to wonder at what took so long and Kaz need to put some sort of feed back board in the game so that people that have actually paid and played the game can tell him were his going wrong, does anyone like the museum cards.

Quote from Hotdogxx60 :

If only LFS could supply the content of GT, it would be a perfect world. But one has to wonder at what took so long and Kaz need to put some sort of feed back board in the game so that people that have actually paid and played the game can tell him were his going wrong, does anyone like the museum cards.

museum cards is a nice touch imho; the presentation of Gt is one of the things i look forward to ( though normally the overly dressed up shit that most games produce annoys me ) theirs something about the whole lay out and config + music and it all clicks together nicely.

but the game needs Alot of work and patching.

thank god PSN is half decent these days ( but still needs work, i give my PS full internet and still struggle to top 5 mbps )

Quote from danowat :

snip

See, personally i think GT5 is a lot better than FM3.

In GT5 i can overlook the bad things because the actual driving with the G25 and cockpit view is great and a lot of fun.

In FM3 i can't overlook the toyish driving/driving feel/immersion while on the track... even tho i've always tried, since the rest of the game (menus, cars, customization, etc) is really good. I never was fully satisfied with FM3, if it weren't for the better graphics, i would have kept playing FM2 instead (because there, the driving was good actually).

I couldn't care less about the standard cars in GT5 by the way. I didn't have to drive one yet, and if i can do without, i'll stay away from them. To me, GT5 is a game with 200+ cars. Compare a Forza car with a GT5 premium car, otherwise it's not fair... Forza doesn't have "standard" cars.

To be honest, i'm having so much fun behind the wheel in GT5, that i don't care about all the things that are bad/missing as far as menus, features, etc goes. You seem to be the opposite in this regard. For example... if i remember correctly, you enjoyed some recent NFS titles quite a lot (pro street, shift?)... now, i think those are games which offer a pretty finished and "complete" game feel (all the things you're missing in GT5 now), but to be honest... i couldn't stand them personally, because they felt terrible to drive.

Different tastes.

Quote from Hotdogxx60 :

does anyone like the museum cards.

Quite nice, but 5 a day?, I'd rather have them from day one to look through though.

I also like the descriptions on each of the cars, something I like very much in GT"

Also, it unfortunate (for me) they removed the "machine test" section, where you could test your car in 0-400m, 0-1000m and top speed.

@Jibber, it is possible to enjoy a game that is unrealistic, aslong as it is fun.

But yeah, different tastes and all that, I am sure tons of people will get lots of enjoyment out of it, and PD/Sony will make a shed load of money, but boy oh boy did they fall short of the potential of the series on the current crop of hardware.

Right now I will play GT5 over FM3, but looking back at what I enjoyed in FM3 all these months, running in leagues, tuning and painting my own race car....I can't do that in GT5.

FM3 is complete in what it is set out to do. While GT5 is half finished in its scope, and in some fundamental features is strangely lacking.

btw: how can you host a private room in GT5?

On a lighter note, the random name generator often chucks up some funny names, I was racing a J.Bieber the yesterday, I did chuckle!.

Sorry Tristan, but gamepad? Sometimes it seems like i'm not on the forums for one of the best sims ever.

wow, a thread about a PS3 game which has an X Box 360 rival and the discussion is being civilised !!!

Quote from tinvek :

wow, a thread about a PS3 game which has an X Box 360 rival and the discussion is being civilised !!!

Dustin will be along later to change that.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

Sorry Tristan, but gamepad? Sometimes it seems like i'm not on the forums for one of the best sims ever.

Yes, a gamepad.

The PS3 lives under the telly, and I play on the sofa with a controller. That's how consoles have always been for me.

My PC setup, with the G25 tucked away, with the wiring all set up there, is in the same room, but so far I haven't got round to moving the PS3 to the PC desk, faffing around with the wiring (I know there are only two wires, but it's a fairly involved process getting them out of the TV unit and to the other side of the room.... And then I need to buy an HDMI-DVI converter to use my monitor with the PS3...

So, in short, I haven't got round to rearranging my room to play GT5 on a wheel. Sorry if that offends you. But being a console game, I think it's only fair to play it in it's natural habitat - TV, sofa, gamepad. The extra aspect of wheel play can wait.

I have far too many things to do to warrant rearranging my living room to play a game. For starters, if I have half an hour of 'gaming time' to myself, I don't want to spend most of it moving the console. I'd rather play. Then I have a wiring loom to build for the race car, and an engine to help build and refit. And a brake system to overhaul. And I have to sort out some photo albums because I don't trust keeping all my photos on a computer - I want hard copies of them for posterity. And I have to re-do my bathroom at some point. And I'm rehearsing for a play (Little Shop of Horrors). And I'm trying to get a second driver into the team, so need to work on that. Plus I'm attempting to recruit a university student to help run that car. Plus I have a girlfriend to see. Plus I have some Christmas shopping to get round to doing. Plus I have parents/friends/family that I ought to see periodically... Plus I have to eat/sleep/shower and go to work for 8 hours. And on Sunday I'm spending the day taking photos of half-marathon runners for a media company (I should have been taking part, but my knee swelled up to the size of a melon after a few weeks of training, and whenever I try running on it (after it's gone down) it comes back - so I have a fooked knee). Am I the busiest man in the world??? I seriously doubt it, but I don't have time to waste seeing if a console game that is getting mixed reviews with wheels anyway is actually any good at the moment.

Sorry.

Haha, not offended but you think it's fair to give a review about physics with gamepad? I'm sure something changes in the physics department when you play with a gamepad, even though you turned off all the available aids..
Anyway, finished installing, see ya later

Norwich HM?, I take it "Marathonfotos"?, didn't your bro take pics last year?, I was running, by christ those photos are expensive, I hope you are being paid well!!!!

Quote from Boris Lozac :

I'm sure something changes in the physics department when you play with a gamepad, even though you turned off all the available aids..

Nothing changes, its just that you actually get some sembelence of feedback from the tyres with a FFB device, as opposed to none with a gamepad, but the physics are still the same.

Yarp, the Norwich HM. My bro did take pics last year, and I've been asked to help. I am being paid, but it's like £20 to stand in the cold taking pictures of people running (and hence being a bit warmed)... Are you running? I'll send you photos for free if I have any on my memory card

And Boris, yes I do think it's fair to give a Playstation game a review using an official Playstation controller in the natural habitat of a Playstation (TV/Sofa). Why would it not be fair? Are we only allowed to review flying games if we invest in the cockpit of an F16? Are we only allowed to review Metal Gear Solid if we play wearing a Camo-Suit using a real gun? Are we only allowed to review Red Dead Redemption if I play whilst on a horse?

And besides, I've mentioned in the 'review' that most of the crap stuff isn't the actual driving, and what IS the actual driving is sufficiently poor to not be controller related. Try an Elise and tell me that it's ANYTHING like a real Elise. Someone mentioned the AMG SLS thing - if they're that understeery and tail-happy in real life, with that little grip, then everyone who buys one will die - guaranteed. But at the least the game is fun. It really is (but so was F1 2010, and that turned out to be really crap apart from the graphics).

the online part is f**ked.

no class restriction, no way to tell tire choice limit, in FM3 at least you can make different setting saves and load them, but here it's just dysfunctional.

Quote from tristancliffe :

And Boris, yes I do think it's fair to give a Playstation game a review using an official Playstation controller in the natural habitat of a Playstation (TV/Sofa). Why would it not be fair? Are we only allowed to review flying games if we invest in the cockpit of an F16? Are we only allowed to review Metal Gear Solid if we play wearing a Camo-Suit using a real gun? Are we only allowed to review Red Dead Redemption if I play whilst on a horse?

To be fair, you propably wouldn't suggest a final review of LFS to be made based on keyboard + mouse.

I think I will rent a copy of GT5, play it for a weekend with a wheel in place and then make my own opinion. However, every video of it I saw post-release has so far looked horrible. That includes the ones from this thread (...the Castrol Supra looks ... underwhelming).

Vain

I play RDR in leather chaps if that counts?.

No, I am not running in this years Norwich HM, thankfully judging by the weather!, £20?, bloody hell, have you seen the prices they charge for their photos?!

Back on topic.....physics.....yeah, there seems to be some tyre physics issues, some cars are REALLY slippy, the Elise like Tristan mentions, I also think that the low speed tyre grip is off in FWD cars, as there is very, very little traction of the line, even in a not overly powerfull car, but then once its moving its tough to break traction when cornering, likewise in RWD cars, they are very, very keen to break traction at the slightest touch.

Quote :

the online part is f**ked.

no class restriction, no way to tell tire choice limit, in FM3 at least you can make different setting saves and load them, but here it's just dysfunctional.

I don't think its "****ed", as what it does, it does well, I do however think its very, very incomplete, and needs a lot of work.

Quote from Vain :

To be fair, you propably wouldn't suggest a final review of LFS to be made based on keyboard + mouse.

I think I will rent a copy of GT5, play it for a weekend with a wheel in place and then make my own opinion. However, every video of it I saw post-release has so far looked horrible. That includes the ones from this thread (...the Castrol Supra looks ... underwhelming).

Vain

It's a good job my 'review' isn't final or in depth then!!!

Plus I think it's vastly more likely that PC racing enthusasts will have a wheel - even a cheap one. Or maybe console driving enthusiasts that don't play PC racing games have their consoles on a desk with a wheel. Or maybe someone have room for one of those cockpit frame things.

The general theme of the game is underwhelming. Maybe if it hadn't been hyped so much we wouldn't be disappointed, but I was expecting photo-realistic locations with working weather (wind, trees swaying, rain, puddles) on which perfectly modelled (and excessively complex) cars use a brilliant physics system against a stunning human-like AI, with dents and bits falling off being the norm. Race weekends, marshals, working gravel traps et al should have been standard issue.

But we've got a cartoony game (most but by no means all of the time), with wildly varying physics, using a very simple weather system (but with nice windscreen effects), on quickly modelled tracks against some of the worst AI the world has seen in 10 years, with a damage free car unless you're a suitable dedicated driver driving one of the cars that actually has a damage system approaching good, in which you can't qualify, can't set up the car properly....... Yet I still like it (an I keep stressing that in case people think I'm saying it's rubbish because I'm jealous or an LFS/PC fanboy or something).

Quote from danowat :

I don't think its "****ed", as what it does, it does well, I do however think its very, very incomplete, and needs a lot of work.

and what does it do? It don't even have an invite function for private rooms.

I mean shouldn't this be something you drop down from day1? ability to invite/kick etc?

It works, you can race other people, online, pretty much lag free.

Sure, the feature set is EXTREMELY limited, but there is a foundation to work on.

Believe me, there is a TON of things that should have been up to scratch day 1.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe if it hadn't been hyped so much we wouldn't be disappointed...

This is where i actually went the opposite way. I didn't believe the hype and focused on the negative things we've heard/seen about GT5.

I expected it to be really bad in every aspect (apart from nice premium car models, in other words a screenshot generator). And now, since my expectations were REALLY low, i'm positively surprised.

Quote from jibber :

since my expectations were REALLY low, i'm positively surprised.

Sounds like some dates I've been on when I was a young'un

Quote from brandons48 :

You lot are one hell of a miserable bunch...

Will You Go Out With Me???!?!one1

Ah well thats the end credits rolling... Idk if its when u hit 1m credits or what as ive only done about 1/2 the events, Recieved a Veyron too...

Think its about time t buy ma 4th car at last...

I give the game 7.5/10 so far but could be 9.5/10 once they patch the Alpha test feel out...