It's been suggested on another thread on this forum, but i'd like to know (and show) what the general opinion is on introducing a series of compulsory driving tests for access to each of the cars, like the ability to race for 5 laps with a pack of AI WITHOUT touching them or falling off. you do this for each car in order to drive that car online. or something like that

it WILL improve driving standards if introduced but has it's disadvantages

I say yes.

But to do it for ALL the cars would be boring. So why not do them for one car class and then all cars from that class are unlocked.

a driving test for the f08 should be much harder then one for uf1000 as well

(it shouldnt be about doing fast laps either, but about car control)

Driving in LFS is never boring. If it is, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah I agree with driving tests. I wanna say I've passed them!

The driving tests are already there, so the question is whether they should be used to unlock the faster cars for multiplayer.

My opinion is: definatively yes!

The faster cars are hard to drive and we have seen what happens when a newbie tries to drive them on a 20-player host. With these driving tests people would still be able to drive them offline without a need to unlock each car, but driving online would need to pass a driving test, like e.g. the overtaking lessons, first. For an experienced driver such a test wouldn't take long, around 1-5 mins for each car so I can't see any point against it.

I definately agree.
I think that a slalom course, a lap of blackwood with AI and a pit stop test should be in there.

The AI are far too agressive as it is, it would also be very difficult to tell if a car is all over the place on the ragged edge (and therefore dangerous to race against) or if the driver is in control in a completely balanced car.

Yes, it would help.

But the main thing is educating people in driving standards, which tests would be hard to do. If you are not on the pace, or in contention for a good result, be aware of where you are relative to the leaders, be aware of whats coming up behind you, and be aware of which lines you take, and where you lift/brake when being lapped.

The most important thing is to NOT try and get back on the racing line after a spin immediately. Look around. Glance at the map. Take into account the speeds at that part of the track. Never ever change lines if you are causing a hazard. The quicker drivers will MUCH prefer it if you stick to one line, and allow them to pass you safely, rather than have to worry about what weird driving you are about to do.

If in doubt, drive offline, watch the better racers for a week or two, and be prepared to shift-s at a moments notice.

Newbies deserve to learn. But they also have an obligation not to mess up those that have learnt to aquit themselves on track.

like a big interactive (but somehow scripted) test that could piont all those things out and make sure that they are understood by the testee,
not a simple thing to organize but it could have some value in discouraging those who can't take driving in LFS seriously enough. i have a feeling that those who do not want to take the test would be more likely to have accidents online

I think LFS suffers from being a sim but is dressed as an arcade game, all the extra on screen overlays coloured names, drifters, and the demo cars don't help to convey what it is, a sim. I doubt very many race with the map on. I only have the Lap and my Position, which is more than enough information for me. I think people also ignore yellow flags, they mean no overtaking (the only exception being if a dangerous speed differential) and people seem to think they can be running side by side bashing wheels then complain when they find a car in the middle of the track. Look at GPL I know it did have wreckers originally but the racing quality tends to be much better, admitably a lot of people are off the pace and spinning all the time but it doesn't cause huge flame wars. The sooner we get open wheeled cars that tangle with each other the sooner people will stop driving like go karts.

the problem is not lack of driving abilities the problem is lack of common sense ... and you just cant teach that with a few driving tests

Perhaps an introduction to racing video as you first enter the MP screen that you are forced to watch? One that explains all these things? If someone is willing to create the video, I'm sure Scawen would implement it as it would help improve standards online. Perhaps PM him about it before taking any initiative though...

I imagine it to be a kind of thing where a car gets itself in dangerous situations and text explaining potential dangers and what can be done to avoid them...

A video will propably not help against the "Hey, I'm bored! let's ruin someone's race by bumping into him and see his car crumble!"-people.

What might have an effect is setting the amount of exchange-cars to exactly one. So you can once shift+s back to the pits and try again, but after that you have to finish the rest of the lap and go into the pits to get your car repaired. That will make crashing people very boring because the crasher has to drive all the way again (which can take ages with a broken car). On the other hand the normal players will most propably still have their secondary car available and can immediately race on.

Vain

A video will have an effect on the amount of unawareness regarding rules and lack of common sence and driver ethics on track and that is one issue that must also be addressed.

There are not too many wreckers around and decreasing their number further by making it less convenient for them will help with that issue. They can usually be dealt with by banning, especially on S1/2 servers where they become permanently banned if they behave inappropriately. I think there should be a limit to the number of times you can go to the pits with Shift+S in one race and then carry on (1 spare car would probably be most realistic - if you park in the pits and go to the garage to adjust your settings, then a car change does not take place). This would keep wreckers off long race servers as they would be able to cause 1 or 2 crashes and they would have to sit the rest out. Perhaps some damage should be permanent, even after a pit stop, because you cannot really repair everything in a race.

Permanent damage would propably make the normal players extremely frustrated that were hit by a wrecker.

Vain

I am all for those tests!! If you want to drive online, you have to learn the basics of driving and racing, and also rules, which MANY don't know.. So if you want to drive a some car, you have to pass several tests like, safe overtaking, perfect lines, looking left-right-behind(one guy say to me, that he didn't bothered of settings those buttons, and wonders why is his falt for a crash!?), and other basics.. And that is like for all cars, and then for a particular car, some other tests, like, how to control that car, how to enter corners with it, etc.. This is a MUST HAVE, if we want clean racing!

I don't think lack of education is the issue, but it does seem that whilst a lot of attention is given to blue flags, yellow flags are rather neglected.

Quote from Shotglass :

the problem is not lack of driving abilities the problem is lack of common sense ... and you just cant teach that with a few driving tests

Sometimes, the ignorance you see online simply comes from not nessecerily knowing what is expected of them. ok there's a brief message in game message. but most kids just want to drive a cool car about and do some cool stuff,

it would be nice to set the 'tone' of the game BEFORE they're set loose onto the servers. it might be tough nut i've got the idea forming for a series of tests, one for each 'class' of car, there are a few things that need to be done to make it work tho' :

it needs to be fun
it should show and test the main points of good online behavior,
it mustn't deter would be buyers
it should add to the experience of LFS

i dunno, it might work but starting off in the begining with a couple of quick tests (not base too much on speed tho') before you can race on the demo servers and a further one to drive the GTT,

when i say test i would prefer it to be in the format of an enjoyable excersise in racecraft like staying between 2 (improved ) AI about 60ft apart. maybee 'accident avoidence','How th start' and a 'flag useage' tests would be interesting!

Quote from Theafro :

most kids just want to drive a cool car about and do some cool stuff,

What are the drift servers for?

Quote :

it would be nice to set the 'tone' of the game BEFORE they're set loose onto the servers.

BEFORE they buy it.

Hi All

I dont know if this is such a good idea for those of us who are genuine players. Myself and many other new members dont want to feel punished because of a certain minority. The most important thing to remember is we all paid money to play this game in its complete form. As its multiplayer orientated i also expect to be able to play the complete game online whenever i want to. I dont have enough time to play the game as much as i would like allready, let alone having to spend my time passing driving tests before i can play the complete game online. I am sensible enough to race around the track in a fast car allready without causing any one else problems. So instead of punishing everyone or making things more difficult for the genuine users punish the idiots and wreckers in the first place, make it harder for this minority to come back and cause more trouble by permanently banning them. After all they are in breach of their user agreement in some way or another.
If you start adding features like compulsory driving tests people will simply avoid buying the game and look for a more hassle free alternative. I am starting to regret giving this game and its community a chance allready. Sadly its not the idiots that are putting me off, its people who are still not willing to accept most new members are sensible adults and treating us all like children instead.

Kindest Regards Tim

I know it sounds elitist, but this is what I'd like (bit long winded though).

Most men like cars and planes and internal combustion engines. Some might pretend not to, but most do. So the natual tendancy is to buy racing games. Therefore people that like cars buy LFS. They may not want a serious race, or to have to think about driving and therefore demand babyish features like Traction Control, or something that makes setups easier. This is bad! Bad for the racing online (as lots of people don't really care), and bad for LFS's image (look at PC Zones inaccurate review).

Now, as I said most men also like planes. Especially jet fighters. There are a number of sims on the market. Some attract lots, and these are generally the more forgiving sims. The ones with arcadey addons. The better sims (X-Plane for example) only tends to attract the more serious flier, and so nice things like Space Shuttle descents are added to attract sales, and well... simply because X-Plane can. If you play a serious flight sim online (IL2, X-Plane) you TEND to meet a more serious, sensible bunch of people, who will fly with you, avoid you, maintain radio contact and not swear. Or wreck.

Because LFS simulates cars and is very good value for money, it attracts more 'monkeys'. Those that don't care, those that want to ruin other peoples enjoyment, and those that only play for a laugh, and don't worry about getting quicker, or causing the odd accident.

So, how to improve the racing. I doubt either will be attractive on this forum, and I am wearing my napalm/bullet/flame/radiation proof suit already.

1. Make LFS more expensive. Price ourselves out of the main consumer market, and only the serious will tend to bother with it. Overall sales will decrease, but it'd sort the men from the boys.

2. Make LFS more 'simulated' Get rid of nearly every arcade/noob add on, and make it as pure as a pure thing on national Pure Day. The fun-runners won't want to bother because the learning curve is too steep. The more serious people will put the effort in, and ultimately be rewarded with the best online experience.

Now, neither solution is perfect imo. But I think LFS is so accessible now that idiots feel they CAN just go for a drive. And it is so cheap that people don't worry about abusing other people (either by wrecking or by gusing someones name derogatorily). As I said I don't expect anyone to agree with me, as no-one ever does. But perhaps it's food for thought for a different approach?

Yea, but that would hugely decrease sales!! Do you want that..?

What do you think of this? :

A system, that when you are banned, you can't race anymore on that track with that car, until you pass a test for that track/car.. then you can come back and drive online..??

I wouldn't personally mind passing some driving tests to get access to the fastest cars, as long as the tests would be made well (For example I'd propably hate a test of some kind where you would be forced to drive with the current AI drivers) as this would mean everyone I drive with online would have at least some basic knowledge on how those cars handle. It might also be helpful if there would be some means of seeing how much experience people have, like maybe display the amount of online credits a person has when he/she joins a server, or display the amount of laps he/she has driven on the current car/track combo in the name list. This would make it much easier for admins to concentrate on new people to watch how they drive and instruct or kick them if necessary, and the other drivers could also see that the person might not be so experienced and could be more careful when dealing with him/her on the track.

I would also support much more strict policies against wreckers from the devs, in clear cases of someone doing wrecking even once should get their license removed immediately.

I believe that lack of education is actually an issue. So many times, on demo servers especially, you get people parked on the racing line, people comming back onto the track in a dangerous manner etc. Before you can teach these people how to drive you must teach them the ethics of driving. Also, a course that introduces you to the racing line would be nice - one where you start out with a normal single corner and have to keep within certain boundries. Then a chicane, showing the optimum racing line through there and so on. Also how to navigate a series of corners demonstrating the concept of 'you may have to take a slower line through the second last corner to get a better line into the last one and therefore get better corner exit speed onto the straight'.

Also "How to overtake" and more importantly "How to BE OVERTAKEN". I don't know how you will put this in a test - perhaps put several AI's in an XF GTi and have the driver in a GTT and the other way around and if the driver makes it around the track without having made contact with the other cars then he passes. You would have to teach the AI's how to be overtaken too and how to overtake cleanly - I found it very frustrating when I was doing the training and the AI's pushed me off my racing line when I was overtaking them and onto the grass and if I made contact it was 'my fault'.

Such tests, coupled with a video when entering the MP screen for the first time will greatly improve the standard of driving online.

If the concepts of:

> Taking it easy into the first corner of a race
> Flagging
> Overtaking safely
> Comming back onto the track after and off
> Pitting in the last garage in the pit lane available
> Practically all Racing Rule (simmilar to the ones provided by the CRC)

and any others you can think of that are relevant are demonstrated in the video, I think it will lead to an improvement in online racing.

Lol, you guys are funny. Do it yourselves on your own servers.